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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Here is the Collins deal I would do:

Phoenix gets Beasley, Vando
Phoenix gives Crowder, Saric, 2024 FRP top 5 protected until it conveys.

Atlanta gives: John Collins and swap rights with their 2023 first with the pick Utah owns from Brooklyn or Philly
Atlanta gets: Crowder, Kelly O

Utah Gives: KO, Beasley, Vando
Utah Gets: Collins, Saric, 2024 1st and the swap rights with the 2023 Brooklyn pick from Atlanta.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Here is the Collins deal I would do:

Phoenix gets Beasley, Vando
Phoenix gives Crowder, Saric, 2024 FRP top 5 protected until it conveys.

Atlanta gives: John Collins and swap rights with their 2023 first with the pick Utah owns from Brooklyn or Philly
Atlanta gets: Crowder, Kelly O

Utah Gives: KO, Beasley, Vando
Utah Gets: Collins, Saric, 2024 1st and the swap rights with the 2023 Brooklyn pick from Atlanta.
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I could live with that kind of deal. Not sure if Atlanta and Phoenix do it, but the players and compensation seems pretty reasonable across the board. Atlanta might balk at the risk of giving up a premium pick this year, but if Collins truly is a negative asset, that might be a bargain.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Here is the Collins deal I would do:

Phoenix gets Beasley, Vando
Phoenix gives Crowder, Saric, 2024 FRP top 5 protected until it conveys.

Atlanta gives: John Collins and swap rights with their 2023 first with the pick Utah owns from Brooklyn or Philly
Atlanta gets: Crowder, Kelly O

Utah Gives: KO, Beasley, Vando
Utah Gets: Collins, Saric, 2024 1st and the swap rights with the 2023 Brooklyn pick from Atlanta.
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Seems fair-ish, but if Utah was asking for 2 first for Beasley/Vando, I wouldnt imagine they would compromise at one 1st and a swap while also throwing in KO.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Seems fair-ish, but if Utah was asking for 2 first for Beasley/Vando, I wouldnt imagine they would compromise at one 1st and a swap while also throwing in KO.
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Yeah... I just think its a little iffy to think you will get back a first each for malik and Vando unless you are taking on bad salary. So what we are seeking is one thing... what we find may be another. I think Beasley and Vando have close to first round value depending on what salary you get back... KO likely not worth a first on his own. So you combine the three and get a lightly protected pick and you jump up like 10+ spots (which is worth a first). It is essentially two firsts in value.

The main part/question is still - Do you like John Collins?
 
I don’t like it! Collins is shooting .232 from three and averages barely over an assist a game in 30.5 mins. Per 36 mins, Vando averages 2.4 more boards, .7 more steals and 2.5 more assists per game. Collins has a slightly better % from two and slightly fewer turnovers, he also beats him substantially in FT% and blocks. As the 3 pt % this year is a statistical outlier, Ainge undoubtedly thinks that like Vando and Beasley that he can restore his value and flip him. Ainge must’ve read Trump’s Art of the Deal at some point because the guy is obsessed with buying low and selling high IMO.

So now we’ve got a situation where Vando and Beasley’s names have been leaked in a possible deal. And the whole world knows that Ainge is currently fixated on a known malcontent named John Collins with the intention of procuring more draft tickets for the war chest. :rolleyes:
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah... I just think its a little iffy to think you will get back a first each for malik and Vando unless you are taking on bad salary. So what we are seeking is one thing... what we find may be another. I think Beasley and Vando have close to first round value depending on what salary you get back... KO likely not worth a first on his own. So you combine the three and get a lightly protected pick and you jump up like 10+ spots (which is worth a first). It is essentially two firsts in value.

The main part/question is still - Do you like John Collins?
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I like the idea of who John Collins was starting to look like before they drafted Trae Young. Hopefully a change of scenery can bring out the best version of him - if that’s the way the Jazz go.

One thing I really do like about that potential trade is consolidating 3 for 1 and adding more draft assets. I think the Jazz should still be in asset collection mode. Don’t worry about your record, but try to accumulate as many assets as possible right now. This is a great year to do it.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
I'll never understant these takes. Are we watching the same player?? Vando is terrible. You could replace him with a ****ing chair out there and the chair would be more of a scoring threat. (Not to mention it wouldn't insist on dribbling the ball up court for no reason after a rebound.) Maybe there was a slight chance of a first when this team was on fire to start the season, but lately JV has been exposed and his trade value has fallen off a cliff.
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unfinished products always have trade value, but yeah role players if that is his assumed ceiling at this point, never have much trade value anyway.
 
Coach Ellis said:
I like the idea of who John Collins was starting to look like before they drafted Trae Young. Hopefully a change of scenery can bring out the best version of him - if that’s the way the Jazz go.

One thing I really do like about that potential trade is consolidating 3 for 1 and adding more draft assets. I think the Jazz should still be in asset collection mode. Don’t worry about your record, but try to accumulate as many assets as possible right now. This is a great year to do it.
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imo Collins lacks consistency of what he was in his first few seasons. He is clearly a little less explosive and has a lot less motor than before. It has to be somewhat possible of not likely, that he was relying on way more enhancers than he got busted for. Granted, I am aware many players are breaking the league policies here and there, jumping through loopholes, but now that he is under a microscope, he can forfeit way more by endulging so he is the lesser version of his former self. He is a bust on that deal unless he breaks the rules again.
I think he is overpaid for what he offers now, and isn't worth half it, and the Jazz brass litterally would only absorb his deal, if getting back multiple firsts, because he is not anything close to worth that paycheck now.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Or… stay with me here… we get the best talent possible and worry about fit later.
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Kind of like the wolves and Gobert. I love that idea. It's not like Collins is a free asset coming our way. We would have to give up something good to get him and there is the question of what else you could get for that 25mil in salary. Not every decision is just cut and dry. There are tradeoffs and I'm hesitant to go after a guy that plays the same position as our best player and to get the most out of him he needs to play a similar role to that guy.
 
Coach Ellis said:
I like the idea of who John Collins was starting to look like before they drafted Trae Young. Hopefully a change of scenery can bring out the best version of him - if that’s the way the Jazz go.

One thing I really do like about that potential trade is consolidating 3 for 1 and adding more draft assets. I think the Jazz should still be in asset collection mode. Don’t worry about your record, but try to accumulate as many assets as possible right now. This is a great year to do it.
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I like the idea of a three for one trade as well… we don’t have a roster crunch this year but there are some guys that have shown they should get a bit more playing time. Next year adding 2-3 players in the draft and being able to hunt a bit in FA we will start to have a bottleneck. Hopefully consolidating those three in a higher quality player (hopefully) while getting a couple decent draft assets is solid. If the tank rolls because we have up some depth then that’s fine… if Collins makes us better and there is no drop off… great.

Still not sure on Collins as a player but like you the idea of Collins.
 
sip said:
Kind of like the wolves and Gobert. I love that idea. It's not like Collins is a free asset coming our way. We would have to give up something good to get him and there is the question of what else you could get for that 25mil in salary. Not every decision is just cut and dry. There are tradeoffs and I'm hesitant to go after a guy that plays the same position as our best player and to get the most out of him he needs to play a similar role to that guy.
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No, the rule doesn’t apply when you overpay. They would be getting a lot less heat if they got Gobert for 75 cents for the dollar vs 200 cents for the dollar.
 
To me Collins is like a Rudy Gay (career) or Antawn Jamison or Larry Hughes. Guys whose numbers occupy space and look decent-ish but your eyeball would never tell you they’re having an impact. Because they aren’t.
 
infection said:
To me Collins is like a Rudy Gay (career) or Antawn Jamison or Larry Hughes. Guys whose numbers occupy space and look decent-ish but your eyeball would never tell you they’re having an impact. Because they aren’t.
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Or he’s Darius Miles with a mail-in rebate.
 
infection said:
To me Collins is like a Rudy Gay (career) or Antawn Jamison or Larry Hughes. Guys whose numbers occupy space and look decent-ish but your eyeball would never tell you they’re having an impact. Because they aren’t.
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I'm not sure that is really fair... maybe early Collins was a looter in a riot but i think he has turned into a solid defender. Looked up the 538 raptor player comps and it listed Prime Ersan Illyasova and Tobias Harris as the top comps... I think that is likely kinda the blend of player he is... not the on-ball stuff with Tobias but not quite just the spot up guy that Ersan was.

You are hoping for more than that but I think he has turned into a winning player... that player likely isn't worth what he is paid, but there are reasons to believe there could be more and you are buying low. There are reasons to be cautious... but that gets smoothed over with the draft comp.

Not saying I would 100% do it but if the FO believes in Collins I think its a fair deal.
 
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