Fire up the Trade Machine

[Elizah Huge]

What is the advantage of coming out and saying we’re sellers? There is none.

 

[HermanG]

Your post mentioned the top teams. The pels are 2 and 2 without Zion recently and those 2 wins are against the rockets and wiz. They have been missing Ingram for a long time though and that is the piece paired with Zion that makes them elite. The suns have been struggling with CP playing because Booker, Cam Johnson and Cam Payne have been out. A fully healthy suns team blows away a healthy jazz team. We got off to an insane start this season where we were crazy clutch at the end of games but since that start we are 10-20 without being devastated by injuries. Yeah we have had a few hear or there but nothing crazy because we have such a similar level depth from one player to another. When Conley went down Sexton stepped in as the starting pg and actually played better than Conley. NAW stepped in when injuries forced him and he arguably played better than the guy he replaced.

First we talk about competitiveness and now you talk about wins/losses. Two separate things.

Hard to have a discussion when you dont stay in topic.

You proclaim "healthy Suns blows us away".. and your evidence is.. your expertise?

I'm talking facts alone. And fact is we are in games in the 4th quarter literally every night... and more often than not its been our defense that has been our undoing.

 

[HermanG]

What is the advantage of coming out and saying we’re sellers? There is none.

Dude. Im not saying "come to the podium to declare it". I'm saying it would leak out... or at least if we made or took calls then one side would leak it. Reporters got insiders everywhere.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ok thats thick..

They did say they are "exploring options" before Rudy was traded.. and there were lots of reporters telling us a big move was maybe coming. I truely do think they wanted to retool around Donovan be either Donovan wanted no part of it or our FO couldnt get who they wanted at the right price.

This time there are no reporters telling we are sellers. Just some half-assed ones speculating what we should do.

It’s not thick at all… it’s exactly what happened. Put whatever nuance you want around it… we were told one thing while they were absolutely looking at doing another.

Jazz want to extend JC… Jazz want to keep JC… Jazz aren’t trading JC… oh wait JC has rebuffed them in extension talks… oh wait he’s repped by Klutch… cut to the press conference where DA says we didn’t want to trade Jc but just got an offer that works for everyone.

It’s easy to connect dots looking back and say “that was different look at XYZ”. It’s much harder to examine what is currently happening and what they are saying and predict where they will go… just because they say they are going a certain direction. It’s not something we should all believe. They have flat out lied before. Rationalize however you want… they are playing poker… it pays off to deceive.

 

[HermanG]

The jazz have been notorious for keeping stuff in house. Even with the Rudy and Donovan trades we heard some rumors but the rumors weren't even about the teams we ended up making the deals with. Same goes for Bogey. No one saw Bogey for Olynyk coming.

Yep.. abd thats my point. Its silent.

Btw those rumors were legit offers or discussions that were later reported. Bogey came out of the blue but at that point I'm not sure they cared that Detroit and Jazz are making a trade tbh.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Dude. Im not saying "come to the podium to declare it". I'm saying it would leak out... or at least if we made or took calls then one side would leak it. Reporters got insiders everywhere.

My man… a few of us here told people Gobert was getting traded about a month before he was in rumors… then a few of us here told people Mitchell was next and people still didn’t believe us. Now we are telling you we are going to be sellers. I’m telling you one or two of the vets are absolutely getting moved for players and pick(s).

 

[sip]

First we talk about competitiveness and now you talk about wins/losses. Two separate things.

Hard to have a discussion when you dont stay in topic.

You proclaim "healthy Suns blows us away".. and your evidence is.. your expertise?

I'm talking facts alone. And fact is we are in games in the 4th quarter literally every night... and more often than not its been our defense that has been our undoing.

Your post was that we have been competitive against the top teams and my retort was that we haven't actually played many top teams without them missing a key piece or 2. When going up against an actual full strength top team in this league I think get wrecked. Especially if we are talking about any type of playoff series.

 

[HermanG]

It’s not thick at all… it’s exactly what happened. Put whatever nuance you want around it… we were told one thing while they were absolutely looking at doing another.

Jazz want to extend JC… Jazz want to keep JC… Jazz aren’t trading JC… oh wait JC has rebuffed them in extension talks… oh wait he’s repped by Klutch… cut to the press conference where DA says we didn’t want to trade Jc but just got an offer that works for everyone.

It’s easy to connect dots looking back and say “that was different look at XYZ”. It’s much harder to examine what is currently happening and what they are saying and predict where they will go… just because they say they are going a certain direction. It’s not something we should all believe. They have flat out lied before. Rationalize however you want… they are playing poker… it pays off to deceive.

No its not. The reports were out there. Actually I remember wrong.. even Bogey trade discussions were reported before it happened. Tony Jones wrote to the Athletic about it before Rudy was traded (that we are taking calls).

Jake Fisher reported from multiple discussions regarding Gobert, Kevin O'Conner, Sarah Todd, Marc Stein among the reporters who said Gobert discussions took place.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No its not. The reports were out there. Actually I remember wrong.. even Bogey trade discussions were reported before it happened. Tony Jones wrote to the Athletic about it before Rudy was traded (that we are taking calls).

Jake Fisher reported from multiple discussions regarding Gobert, Kevin O'Conner, Sarah Todd, Marc Stein among the reporters who said Gobert discussions took place.

Yes... discussions were leaked but what did we hear from TJ (who has real insider knowledge and will report what they tell him) - Jazz are retooling around Donovan... Jazz are likely going to check the trade market for Rudy but most likely just make tweaks and run it back.

What are we hearing now? There was some John Collins noise. We are hearing extension talks with JC... and then that it might not be enough money to keep JC. Bogey we heard a lot of rumors about because they made a weird pre-season deal to move him before camp started. I just heard from Chris Mannix this AM on the SI pod that DA will definitely be selling some vets to tank... Chris is a Boston guy and very clued into DA (think he was one of the first ones to mention him coming here).

I am not sure we definitely see a deal... takes two to tango and Beasley, JC, KO, Vando all have value next year too. What I am saying is don't ****ing believe one thing that comes from the front office... they have zero reason to show their cards. I can believe they could be buyers if an absolute steal comes along... but I think we most likely end up selling off pieces or standing pat.

The fate of the quick rebuild rests on the 2023 draft... losing 5-10 more games to improve the chances of hitting big is absolutely the best course of action. Miss on those picks and you are headed for a 4-5 year process and wasting Lauri's cheap prime and missing his timeline altogether. Having Lauri and Walker is a great start and honestly a start that the FO and fanbase are largely surprised by... it doesn't change the plan though.

 

[sip]

Another thing to take into account is that Lauri hasn't had his yearly minor injury yet. At some point it will probably happen and we lose him for a few weeks. If that happens then the tank can go into full overdrive.

 

[Ron Mexico]

The entire point of these trades is to be worse this year and ensure a high draft pick. We would be half-assing the rebuild to trade picks for guys unless we’re talking superstars.

I dont see that at all. How many teams have won a championship with a player they drafted #1? We have enough draft picks and assets to rebuild properly regardless. We can go the tank route for awhile and wait until we strike gold. If we are going that route we probably should trade Lauri as well. We can also trade for decent young players and hope we strike gold with our million other draft picks. There are a lot of other options for the Jazz. Jazz dont seem to be interested in tanking so I think a lot of people should probably give up on that idea. But I am all for trading our older guys who dont fit in that can net us anything decent. Which means Clarkson should be our #1 person to trade away. I would much rather trade him for a young guy with upside or a guy who fits in the timeline who is underperforming.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I dont see that at all. How many teams have won a championship with a player they drafted #1? We have enough draft picks and assets to rebuild properly regardless. We can go the tank route for awhile and wait until we strike gold. If we are going that route we probably should trade Lauri as well. We can also trade for decent young players and hope we strike gold with our million other draft picks. There are a lot of other options for the Jazz. Jazz dont seem to be interested in tanking so I think a lot of people should probably give up on that idea. But I am all for trading our older guys who dont fit in that can net us anything decent. Which means Clarkson should be our #1 person to trade away. I would much rather trade him for a young guy with upside or a guy who fits in the timeline who is underperforming.

We are literally 10-20 in our last 30 games and are only a few games out of the 5th/6th pick. If there is any year to get the best pick possible it’s this one.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Another thing to take into account is that Lauri hasn't had his yearly minor injury yet. At some point it will probably happen and we lose him for a few weeks. If that happens then the tank can go into full overdrive.

KO out a month... Sexton gonna sit a week or two... We should give Mike some time off. Maybe we sit Lauri here and there to prevent the month long injury instead of it happening (it may not happen and I sincerely hope it does not).

All you have to really do is move Beasley, Vando, or maybe JC if something really good comes along and you will slide down the standings.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We are literally 10-20 in our last 30 games and are only a few games out of the 5th/6th pick. If there is any year to get the best pick possible it’s this one.

Its not hard to see how much parity there is and how we could easily slide to 6/7th which is a meaningful difference between being 11/12 but people feel we have to go full Philly or OKC to do anything here.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Apparently the Hawks are seeking a Donovan/Rudy like return for John Collins. Pretty hilarious.

 

[Ron Mexico]

We are literally 10-20 in our last 30 games and are only a few games out of the 5th/6th pick. If there is any year to get the best pick possible it’s this one.

We also have a big home stand coming up and have barely lost most the games we have lately. There also isn't much difference in picks.

But again, I’m happy to trade away vets it’s more about what we’re getting back though that is the difference.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We also have a big home stand coming up and have barely lost most the games we have lately. There also isn't much difference in picks.

But again, I’m happy to trade away vets it’s more about what we’re getting back though that is the difference.

We've had pretty great health luck and we are like 1/2 game out of being #8 and 2 games away from #6. The odds of a top 4 pick between the #11, #8, #6 9.4%, 25%, 37% - its significant. We won a bunch of close games early... think we were like 5-2 in games decided by one possession. That is now reversing. We have been in a ton of games which is great. The margins are thin and we can offload 1-2 guys and get in the 6-8 range which provides a real chance at hitting. Memphis hit from the #8 spot and ended up with Ja.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We play OKC 4 times in the last 22... say we lose that series 1-3 while continuing to only win 35% of our games. That right there might push you to the 6-7 range which is just so much better long term that winning 3-4 extra games and being the 10/11 spot.

We will see what happens over the next month.

 

[Jaanipoeg]

We play OKC 4 times in the last 22... say we lose that series 1-3 while continuing to only win 35% of our games. That right there might push you to the 6-7 range which is just so much better long term that winning 3-4 extra games and being the 10/11 spot.

We will see what happens over the next month.

Unless they make moves themselves/have injury troubles I definitely think we will sink below the Lakers, Bulls, Thunder, and Raptors. Washington is always a mediocrity wildcard, but I definitely think we can pass them, and the Magic got frisky for a bit and have the glut of young talent that will help them prioritize development over outright tanking.

So I think we have an outside chance at finishing 5th (10.5% of top pick, 42% of jumping to top 4) and a reasonable hope of finishing 6 (~37% of jumping top 4) or 7 (32% of jumping top 4). Considering we got an unexpected 25 year old All-Star out of the season already, could be quite the year.

Honest question, what is the Lauri Finnish military situation? I know he still has mandatory service to complete, any chance he gets sent after the all-star break? I can't tell if its a meme or real possibility, and can't find much online except he still has some service to complete

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Unless they make moves themselves/have injury troubles I definitely think we will sink below the Lakers, Bulls, Thunder, and Raptors. Washington is always a mediocrity wildcard, but I definitely think we can pass them, and the Magic got frisky for a bit and have the glut of young talent that will help them prioritize development over outright tanking.

So I think we have an outside chance at finishing 5th (10.5% of top pick, 42% of jumping to top 4) and a reasonable hope of finishing 6 (~37% of jumping top 4) or 7 (32% of jumping top 4). Considering we got an unexpected 25 year old All-Star out of the season already, could be quite the year.

Honest question, what is the Lauri Finnish military situation? I know he still has mandatory service to complete, any chance he gets sent after the all-star break? I can't tell if its a meme or real possibility, and can't find much online except he still has some service to complete

Not sure how the military service works... but I can't imagine he can just show up whenever he wants. Just thinking about how our country works and the mountains of paperwork and time needed to do anything.