David Locke - Utah Jazz are NOT tanking

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just listening now... he's selling it a little too hard... if it was a soft sell then I'd believe it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Locke was mainly, at least in my mind, responding to Larsen on Hardy tanking. On which I think he was absolutely right.


He freely admitted that the difference between him and Andy is that he's a team employee.

He said he is a team employee but he's not on a team mission here... which is exactly what he would say if he was on a team mission.

Its just like aliens and the government.... "nothing to see here... there are no aliens" and I'm supposed to believe that ****?

(this is sarcastic... just in case it doesn't come across well)

 

[HermanG]

You've heard of OKC right? Now to fit your very specific criteria there it obviously isn't perfect. Nothing would be.

But you can just use your eyes and brain here. Ever heard of a GM offloading 3 starter quality players for no returning players and draft assets when they were in the middle of a playoff race because the value of one protected first was just too much to pass up? Ainge has showed his hand.

Why is the argument that if we are not gunning for the playoffs we are tanking? Are there no alternatives in this universe? Does a rebuild without tanking exist at all?

Plus Steve said something really smart in the other thread... we make that LA deal even if we dont have our own pick since its the best for our future with cap space, player development and other aspects in mind.

 

[HermanG]

Just listening now... he's selling it a little too hard... if it was a soft sell then I'd believe it.

No you wouldn't.

 

[homeytennis]

@han

LoL .. so? Isn’t that just agreeing to an indisputable fact?

I remember oh so fondly how Locke was carrying Quin's and the FO's water about how both Uncle Jeff and DexEx sucked oh so so bad. Uncle Jeff and DedEx suddenly depart soon thereafter. Is he a truthteller or a propangadist?

 

[The Midnight]

Why is the argument that if we are not gunning for the playoffs we are tanking? Are there no alternatives in this universe? Does a rebuild without tanking exist at all?

Because the move takes us AWAY from making the playoffs, that’s why.

No matter what the result is as that depends on the players ultimately.

But the act of trading away 3 of your startesprs for a draft pick effectively is a tanking move imo.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why is the argument that if we are not gunning for the playoffs we are tanking? Are there no alternatives in this universe? Does a rebuild without tanking exist at all?

Plus Steve said something really smart in the other thread... we make that LA deal even if we dont have our own pick since its the best for our future with cap space, player development and other aspects in mind.

There is gunning for the playoffs... then there is purposefully capping ourselves in the knee in the middle of a playoff run... we did the latter. There was no regard given to winning now... none.

Steve maybe said something super smart but I seem to remember how hard he bitched about how ****** the trade was and how little value we got in the trade.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No you wouldn't.

i actually would... the JC stuff makes sense if its a serious injury as he mentions. If he just said "eh the other stuff is nbd". But when he simultaneously says Jones would help you win more and will be on the roster next year... then speaks about the reasons Udoka plays and they are soooooo much smaller than the reasons you played Jones and you just said there is an on court cost... IDK.

Its like when my kids get real specific about things when something broke... I know they are full of **** and hiding something.

I mean he later goes on and accuses OKC of tanking based on SGA not playing and minute distribution... okay Locke.

 

[sip]

Just like I keep expecting the wolves to fall apart I keep expecting the jazz to fall apart but they are just tough. This next 10 game stretch is pretty damn rough though. If they end up going 2-4 or worse on this road trip then I would expect us to go more full full tank the rest of the way where each game we give a rest day to a key player and milk the hell out of minor injuries.

 

[The Midnight]

i actually would... the JC stuff makes sense if its a serious injury as he mentions. If he just said "eh the other stuff is nbd". But when he simultaneously says Jones would help you win more and will be on the roster next year... then speaks about the reasons Udoka plays and they are soooooo much smaller than the reasons you played Jones and you just said there is an on court cost... IDK.

Its like when my kids get real specific about things when something broke... I know they are full of **** and hiding something.

I mean he later goes on and accuses OKC of tanking based on SGA not playing and minute distribution... okay Locke.

I’ve given Locke the benefit of the doubt before when it comes to this sort of stuff,…

But to me this is as clear an example as I’ve seen of him toe-ing the company’s line..

 

[Step-Back Hook]

Because the move takes us AWAY from making the playoffs, that’s why.

No matter what the result is as that depends on the players ultimately.

But the act of trading away 3 of your startesprs for a draft pick effectively is a tanking move imo.

It was a rebuild move more so. Mike is not the future. Vando and Beasley had a negative overall impact per advanced stats and neither would have been in the future starting core. It was ok to move them to have more flexibility to build the team.

Tanking is losing on purpose and no one can convince me otherwise. That is not happening here. What IS happening was getting a two-folded impact via trade: increased chances for high pick and much improved cap space without having to give up future starters.

 

[Korisfani]

There is gunning for the playoffs... then there is purposefully capping ourselves in the knee in the middle of a playoff run... we did the latter. There was no regard given to winning now... none.

Talking of a playoff run maybe a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[sip]

It was a rebuild move more so. Mike is not the future. Vando and Beasley had a negative overall impact per advanced stats and neither would not have been in the future starting core. It was ok to move them to have more flexibility to build the team.

Tanking is losing on purpose and no one can convince me otherwise. That is not happening here. What IS appening was getting two-fold impact via trade: increased chances for high pick and much improved cap space without having to give up future starters.

Trading 3 rotation guys for nothing back is about as clear of a tank move as you will ever see. Unfortunately we have had a soft schedule since the trade and Lauri has just been so damn good and every game we seem to have one or two other guys really step up.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Talking of a playoff run maybe a bit of an exaggeration.

Meant to say race… which is literal

 

[The Midnight]

Tanking is losing on purpose and no one can convince me otherwise. .

By whom though?

The GM?

The coach?

The players?

I have 100% confidence in Hardy trying to win with everything we’ve got on court. I have 100% all the players on court want to win each and expert game too.

But DA’s move at the trade deadline was clearly designed to not help us make the playoffs.

The coach and the players can only do so much with what’s been given to them.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

By whom though?

The GM?

The coach?

The players?

I have 100% confidence in Hardy trying to win with everything we’ve got on court. I have 100% all the players on court want to win each and expert game too.

But DA’s move at the trade deadline was clearly designed to not help us make the playoffs.

The coach and the players can only do so much with what’s been given to them.

By the definition some give there have literally been 0 tanking teams ever. Or maybe the Sixers... but even the Sixers the coaches and players were trying to win.

To be a tanking team you must do literally everything to lose. You must trade every good player. You must start from day 1 of the preseason. You must also state your only goal is to lose games... you can not say that you are doing it to develop young players... then it is a rebuild. The coach must hit on all the players girlfriends and spouses to ensure they hate him. You must keep the home locker room at 77 degrees or higher else the players will be too comfortable. Also this tank must last at least two decades AT LEAST.

 

[Step-Back Hook]

Trading 3 rotation guys for nothing back is about as clear of a tank move as you will ever see. Unfortunately we have had a soft schedule since the trade and Lauri has just been so damn good and every game we seem to have one or two other guys really step up.

I guess we can agree at this point the whole term is about semantics so everyone is right or everyone is wrong.
I am OK with that bc I don't care as far as we do not start "resting" the core to lose.

 

[HermanG]

By the definition some give there have literally been 0 tanking teams ever. Or maybe the Sixers... but even the Sixers the coaches and players were trying to win.

To be a tanking team you must do literally everything to lose. You must trade every good player. You must start from day 1 of the preseason. You must also state your only goal is to lose games... you can not say that you are doing it to develop young players... then it is a rebuild. The coach must hit on all the players girlfriends and spouses to ensure they hate him. You must keep the home locker room at 77 degrees or higher else the players will be too comfortable. Also this tank must last at least two decades AT LEAST.

Stop exaggarating. No one is saying you have to do everything to lose. Oh except the official definitions found in the interwebs.

This is the generally used definition:
Tanking in sports refers to the practice of intentionally fielding non-competitive teams to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams.

Are we a non-competitive team? Are we even a losing team?

I have asked this twice now. Are there any other moves than win now or tanking in your terminology?

 

[fishonjazz]

we make that LA deal even if we dont have our own pick since its the best for our future with cap space, player development and other aspects in mind.

Agree to disagree. In that instance playoff experience and winning culture is more valuable. Then you trade those dudes for some garbage in the offseason if you wants all teh cap spaces and whatnot.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trading 3 rotation guys for nothing back is about as clear of a tank move as you will ever see. Unfortunately we have had a soft schedule since the trade and Lauri has just been so damn good and every game we seem to have one or two other guys really step up.

4 rotation guys. 3 of them starters. (Beasley, vando, and mike are all starting and NAW got some good minutes last night in a close game.)