Summer League Thread

[Handlogten's Heros]

Idk, you tell me. The point is that you are deeply unserious if you think Killian Hayes was overrated because he played in the French league before he played in the German league.

Well there was like 10 German league games (according to the link I was provided) and so I'm guessing his performance in French League had something to do with where he was drafted... While I would always evaluate the prospect I would also consider the trends of players coming from certain schools, leagues, development routes. All will have busts but if there isn't much success I will be quite cautious when evaluating prospects coming from that league, school, route... Australian league has had some success, Kentucky guards have had some success, G League has been fairly solid... if a league isn't spitting many prospects out over a 10 year period... and the ones it does spit out have struggled... I'm going to take that piece of data... it would be dumb not to.

 

[stitches]

Ok, if you want to be dramatic then you can. You flat out lied so you can throw a hissy fit if you want to.

You literally said "but Dieng and Hayes didn't even play in the French league before coming to the NBA."

That’s a flat out lie. So you can sulk if you’re upset about it I don’t care.

Yes and I said just a line under that "only one of them played in the French league immediately before coming to the NBA(Frank)". It's obvious I meant that they came into the league from other leagues(non-French). In that very post I corrected myself about Yabusele, when I realized I made a mistake of this EXACT sort(I thought he was drafted off his play in China, when he was drafted off his play in France and then played in China)

Now I will let others decide if this was a devious plan on my part to lie and "spread misinformation" or what you are doing is bad faith BS.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

it would get thinking, but it would be a deeper analysis as to what made those prospects bust and how does that apply to Bilal. It'd be a much deeper exercise than just "French league bad".

Of course... I'm not writing a guy off because of what league he played in... but if its a meh league and his production is meh... then its a full on mystery box. Its sold as crazy high upside... but if Jordan Walsh hits his median outcome and Bilal hits his median outcome it will likely look super similar imo. At #7 its just a wild swing and I'm glad it wasn't us.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well there was like 10 German league games (according to the link I was provided) and so I'm guessing his performance in French League had something to do with where he was drafted... While I would always evaluate the prospect I would also consider the trends of players coming from certain schools, leagues, development routes. All will have busts but if there isn't much success I will be quite cautious when evaluating prospects coming from that league, school, route... Australian league has had some success, Kentucky guards have had some success, G League has been fairly solid... if a league isn't spitting many prospects out over a 10 year period... and the ones it does spit out have struggled... I'm going to take that piece of data... it would be dumb not to.

It would be extremely dumb to take any piece of data if you don't actually understand it.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I can’t wait to bump this thread in the future lmao. Going to be so ****ing glorious.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Yes and I said just a line under that "only one of them played in the French league immediately before coming to the NBA(Frank)". It's obvious I meant that they came into the league from other leagues(non-French). In that very post I corrected myself about Yabusele, when I realized I made a mistake of this EXACT sort(I thought he was drafted off his play in China, when he was drafted off his play in France and then played in China)

Now I will let others decide if this was a devious plan on my part to lie and "spread misinformation" or what you are doing is bad faith BS.

I’m sorry I misunderstood what you meant by he didn’t play in the French League at all before being drafted my mistake. I guess I should have assumed you knew that was a mistake lmao. It was a disingenuous post and I am done here.

 

[stitches]

Oh yeah, that's the only time you've resorted to these desperate arguments lol. Like I said, there are fair question marks about Bilal. But the insane digging you do to try to "argue" a point really does not make you look good man. You accuse people of "slurping" Bilal to death, but truth is when someone disagrees with you that's the moment you will resort to the dumbest arguments possible. That's how you end up inventing box scores and inventing reasons why people say something.

I'm not even sure @stitches is even high on Bilal. But people can recognize a bad argument as a bad argument. He can speak for himself, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't like or dislike Bilal on the basis of Killian Hayes stepping onto a French LNB court once upon a time.

I'm not super high on Dante Bilal... He reminds me too much of Dante in a lot of the wrong ways. But he also reminds me of him in some of the intrigue. I can see a path for him being amazing... but I don't think the likelihood is high.

 

[KqWIN]

Well there was like 10 German league games (according to the link I was provided) and so I'm guessing his performance in French League had something to do with where he was drafted... While I would always evaluate the prospect I would also consider the trends of players coming from certain schools, leagues, development routes. All will have busts but if there isn't much success I will be quite cautious when evaluating prospects coming from that league, school, route... Australian league has had some success, Kentucky guards have had some success, G League has been fairly solid... if a league isn't spitting many prospects out over a 10 year period... and the ones it does spit out have struggled... I'm going to take that piece of data... it would be dumb not to.

He played over 30 games for Ulm, just FYI. But who cares. Players are not the league they play in. If you cannot differentiate between prospects, I don't know what to tell ya. Wemby and Bilal played for the same team in the same year. That's way more relevant, and you know what, it means nothing. They are different players. And if you go back to my earlier posts, what does it even mean if French players have not been great? Gobert meant nothing for Frank. Frank means nothing for Bilal. French players were really good until they weren't. That can change really quickly and truthfully I don't think a player who was drafted for completely different reasons is a warning sign.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not super high on Dante Bilal... He reminds me too much of Dante in a lot of the wrong ways. But he also reminds me of him in some of the intrigue. I can see a path for him being amazing... but I don't think the likelihood is high. I guess we will see in due time.

I still maintain a Dante that isn't married to having to be on ball as a primary PG is a very good prospect to develop

 

[KqWIN]

I'm not super high on Dante Bilal... He reminds me too much of Dante in a lot of the wrong ways. But he also reminds me of him in some of the intrigue. I can see a path for him being amazing... but I don't think the likelihood is high. I guess we will see in due time.

The Exum stuff makes sense, and it's also why I think these "desperation" arguments are just funny. Like isn't it obvious what we might be overlooking with Bilal? It's not that he's French, it's that he's raw as hell. Exum and Bilal were drafted for similar basketball reasons. If you were to tell me I'm overvaluing the physical tools, overlooking the rawness, and buying into the mystery hype too much. OK fair. That aligns. This French League = Poison stuff, yeah can't take that serious.

Some will say I'm glazing Bilal, but I'm simply saying there's a MUCH more reasonable argument against him lol.

 

[KqWIN]

I still maintain a Dante that isn't married to having to be on ball as a primary PG is a very good prospect to develop

I think with good health he would have been a good player anyways. But maybe that's my bias. I'm too optimistic about the physical tools and overlook how raw a guy is entering the league. I'm open to that...but I'm not overrating Bilal on the basis that he's French.

 

[stitches]

I still maintain a Dante that isn't married to having to be on ball as a primary PG is a very good prospect to develop

That and the injuries.... at the worst possible moments. Right after the rookie year when he was supposed to make strides for year 2... Then... remember when Favors was saying everybody was amazed by Dante's development before the second big injury... It seemed like the team was expecting a big jump from him... What could have been... we will never know.

The Exum stuff makes sense, and it's also why I think these "desperation" arguments are just funny. Like isn't it obvious what we might be overlooking with Bilal? It's not that he's French, it's that he's raw as hell. Exum and Bilal were drafted for similar basketball reasons. If you were to tell me I'm overvaluing the physical tools, overlooking the rawness, and buying into the mystery hype too much. OK fair. That aligns. This French League = Poison stuff, yeah can't take that serious.

Some will say I'm glazing Bilal, but I'm simply saying there's a MUCH more reasonable argument against him lol.

Yep, there are real basketball reasons to be skeptical of Bilal... and there are real basketball reasons to be intrigued by him.

I thought 9 was probably too high... he was never going to drop to 16... but if he was there I would have been OK with picing him there. I guess we will see in due time how he develops. Either way I don't have a strong opinion either way. This year I didn't have the time to watch all the prospect too much so... my opinions on them are very mild in general and I'm very open to being wrong on any of them. Weirdly enough... I think I've watched Bilal and Wemby more than anyone else in the draft....

 

[Elizah Huge]

The Exum stuff makes sense, and it's also why I think these "desperation" arguments are just funny. Like isn't it obvious what we might be overlooking with Bilal? It's not that he's French, it's that he's raw as hell. Exum and Bilal were drafted for similar basketball reasons. If you were to tell me I'm overvaluing the physical tools, overlooking the rawness, and buying into the mystery hype too much. OK fair. That aligns. This French League = Poison stuff, yeah can't take that serious.

Some will say I'm glazing Bilal, but I'm simply saying there's a MUCH more reasonable argument against him lol.

Buddy all the stuff you mentioned is extremely obvious on top of him playing in a league that churns out busts. He averaged 5-3-2 and he can’t shoot. There is no reason to even rehash that stuff.

 

[whatthe]

I think with good health he would have been a good player anyways. But maybe that's my bias. I'm too optimistic about the physical tools and overlook how raw a guy is entering the league. I'm open to that...but I'm not overrating Bilal on the basis that he's French.

Bilal has seizures when he has the ball in his hands, but he is Einstein when he does not and can react.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Man this place got bored lol

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He played over 30 games for Ulm, just FYI. But who cares. Players are not the league they play in. If you cannot differentiate between prospects, I don't know what to tell ya. Wemby and Bilal played for the same team in the same year. That's way more relevant, and you know what, it means nothing. They are different players. And if you go back to my earlier posts, what does it even mean if French players have not been great? Gobert meant nothing for Frank. Frank means nothing for Bilal. French players were really good until they weren't. That can change really quickly and truthfully I don't think a player who was drafted for completely different reasons is a warning sign.

I mean Booker means nothing to SGA and SGA means nothing to Herro... and Herro means nothing to Quickley... and Quickley means nothing to Fox... yet dumb draft people connect them for some reason. Why? Should we ignore that trend too?

Part of differentiating prospects for me would be looking at their production in the league they participate in and comparing it to the past. I'm sorry that is not something new or novel. Over the last 10 or so years it hasn't just been the French league that has produced some rough prospects. Low usage, low production, wings from outside college basketball in general is not something that has a whole of success attached to it. Its a very speculative pick... and while I am fine with risk... in the top 10 the risk outweighs the reward imo. If Wemby did not exist Bilal would not have been taken top 10 imo. I think his stock got a bit overheated.

 

[KqWIN]

That and the injuries.... at the worst possible moments. Remember when Favors was saying everybody was amazed by Dante's development before the second big injury... What could have been... we will never know.

Yep, there are real basketball reasons to be skeptical of Bilal... and there are real basketball reasons to be intrigued by him.

I thought 9 was probably too high... he was never going to drop to 16... but if he was there I would have been OK with picing him there. I guess we will see in due time how he develops. Either way I don't have a strong opinion either way. This year I didn't have the time to watch all the prospect too much so... my opinions on them are very mild in general and I'm very open to being wrong on any of them. Weirdly enough... I think I've watched Bilal and Wemby more than anyone else in the draft....

I think I also watched Bilal+Wemby more than anyone else....but I thought Bilal was a lottery guy when he was still in the baby league. His physical tools were so obvious and I don't think you get that type of athlete outside the lottery very often. Honestly, what the senior team performance did for me was narrow the mystery. I thought his chances of being a star lessened, but his strong defense made me raise his floor. I've maintained that McDaniels/Herb Jones is his most likely outcome, but he does come with the potential for more and that's why he was a lotto pick. There was bound to be a lottery team that just says "**** it" and hope for the best. If you didn't want the Jazz to be that team, I get it, but that was their only chance to do it. Turns out they didn't even have the chance to do it.

Maybe these guys are overrated in general and the risk ends up not being worth it more often than not. But they are lotto guys nonetheless and it's not because they're French.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Craig Porter Jr looking like an undrafted guy who can play in the league

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean Booker means nothing to SGA and SGA means nothing to Herro... and Herro means nothing to Quickley... and Quickley means nothing to Fox... yet dumb draft people connect them for some reason. Why? Should we ignore that trend too?

Part of differentiating prospects for me would be looking at their production in the league they participate in and comparing it to the past. I'm sorry that is not something new or novel. Over the last 10 or so years it hasn't just been the French league that has produced some rough prospects. Low usage, low production, wings from outside college basketball in general is not something that has a whole of success attached to it. Its a very speculative pick... and while I am fine with risk... in the top 10 the risk outweighs the reward imo. If Wemby did not exist Bilal would not have been taken top 10 imo. I think his stock got a bit overheated.

Stop.

There's a huge common denominator with all those prospects. They all played for the same coach who has run the same archaic system all these years. These Kentucky teams have a constant that you cant point out in the French League.

Constants are what make scouting easier or harder. The more constants and fixed variables, the less you have to actually use your critical thinking skills to draw conclusions.

 

[stitches]

Craig Porter Jr looking like an undrafted guy who can play in the league

Is he signed?