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Trade ideas

Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah and that is what the 1st is for... the Beal pick swaps are some of the fakest of fake pick swaps. First its Washington to Phoenix. One is for this year. The 2026 swap relies on Washington being a bottom 8 team and Phoenix also being a bottom 8 team... because if Washington is outside of the top 8 their pick goes to NY. So they got a swap in 28 and 30 and 4 seconds... I would take a first from another team over that (they also threw Goodwin which would have netted a second somewhere too).

Yes I saw a trade where a Lakers fan says they wouldn't move Rui/Dlo and a first for Lauri... so fans are definitely the best ones to ask. These things require context and I'll bet just as many fans would choke at the 4/180M that LaVine is owed.

If John Collins is a free agent he is likely getting MLE or slightly more. so like 12-15M on the higher end. Rui is a solid comp there. Might cost a first to dump the negative money but it also might not. Graham and Bertans were both salary dumped for a pile of seconds and a swap respectively.

So while I think the Bulls would prefer shorter/smaller money like JC and KO I'm not sure they turn their nose at Collins as he might be the player that best fits what they want and the asset attached is better or more than they would get elsewhere.
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You quite literally said that Collins was easier pill to swallow than Lavine, so if we can agree that this is not true, no point in continuing. That was the point in contention. I can't see how where one player is an easier pill to swallow but also needs picks to be even.
 
KqWIN said:
You quite literally said that Collins was easier pill to swallow than Lavine, so if we can agree that this is not true, no point in continuing. That was the point in contention. I can't see how where one player is an easier pill to swallow but also needs picks to be even.
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The contract being easier to swallow does not necessarily mean it’s more valuable.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The contract being easier to swallow does not necessarily mean it’s more valuable.
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If it's not more valuable or desirable, I don't see the point. Personally, I would not actually consider having a less desirable and valuable contract an easy pill to swallow.
 
Look, if we want a mid season deal with Chicago, someone get a flux capacitor and let’s go give up that “OMG it could be the next Donovan” draft pick that became Grayson Allen and get Mirotic.
 
KqWIN said:
If it's not more valuable or desirable, I don't see the point. Personally, I would not actually consider having a less desirable and valuable contract an easy pill to swallow.
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What I said is it might be easier for the Bulls to swallow. Given the choice of managing Lavine planning around his bigger contract, balancing his trade value with giving bigger roles to Demar and White who are playing much better etc. John is less maintenance, should be able to plug him into Torrey Craigs spot and get better production and have a smaller (but maybe less valuable) contract to work with. Less distractions and eating the frog and being done with it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
What I said is it might be easier for the Bulls to swallow. Given the choice of managing Lavine planning around his bigger contract, balancing his trade value with giving bigger roles to Demar and White who are playing much better etc. John is less maintenance, should be able to plug him into Torrey Craigs spot and get better production and have a smaller (but maybe less valuable) contract to work with. Less distractions and eating the frog and being done with it.
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IMO, you can only consider it an easier pill to swallow if they would actually choose that pill to swallow. In this case, that would mean they would swap Collins and Laving....and I don't think they would consider it without compensation. They can probably find a trade to get expiring contracts or better contracts than Collins.
 
KqWIN said:
IMO, you can only consider it an easier pill to swallow if they would actually choose that pill to swallow. In this case, that would mean they would swap Collins and Laving....and I don't think they would consider it without compensation. They can probably find a trade to get expiring contracts or better contracts than Collins.
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Imo you can consider a pill easier to swallow by many factors but if you are going to speak in absolutes about what I said and what I meant the conversation is over. Not getting onto this ******** with you.
 
KqWIN said:
Zach has many suitors. He may not bring superstar value, but he is still very much neutral or positive. Collins is obviously a hard negative. The Jazz are a rebuilding team in need of a locker room guy and I think we can all agree it was a big mistake to take on his contract.
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I'm not sure I've seen many people on this board make 4 points in the same short post and whiff them all completely:
  • Zach doesnt have many suitors at that deal, its been widely reported. You telling me you know FO pulse better than Woj/Shams?
  • He is not a neutral or a positive at that deal, and ever since he has been out Chicago has been playing much better. He has a long history of losing and you cannot really argue about not having players around him. He was also one of the main reasons Lauri's growth and role got stunted in Chicago, as he is incapable of making the smart pass and elevating players around him, and turns into a black hole late in games
  • Collins is not a negative at all. Last season on that same deal Hawks got calls at least from Pels, Suns and Wizards in addition to us, but they were asking too much. In the offseason Zach Lowe reported that the Bucks were seriously considering trading him before we made the deal. The risk was the finger injury and 3pt percentage, but those are now mitigated. Whether he fits here or not doesnt make him any lesser of a player, or his deal any worse as a deal.
  • The fourth whiff is that obviously we all wont agree that taking his contract was a mistake.
 
Chicago can swallow or spit... I dont care either way. I am in no way in favor of Zach Lavine on a 4 year 180 million dollar contract. He is a ball hog. Crafty scorer. Badattitude. Never been a winner. Often a whiner.

If we had traded gay and a second plus filler for Lavine we would all be bothered with the JC, THT, Lavine show. But Lavine would lead the way. There is no getting off his money until my son graduates high school. He is a frosh. Just say no.

Collins is big money but its not outrageous and we had to hit the salary floor. At the time Collins seemed like he might be worth the risk (salary space and nothing else). We saved a few million on Gays contract so it was slightly discounted. We also have seen his 3 pt FG% touch the 40s at times this season which was a huge knock on him as a player.

He sucks at D and doesn't fit with us but I think he is revitalizing his value in Utah a bit.

$20 million less per year than Lavine and 1 year shorter contract. Nuf said.
 
I don't think LaVine is a ball hog, he just isn't a ball mover. For a primary scoring option he has fairly low usage.
 
HermanG said:
I'm not sure I've seen many people on this board make 4 points in the same short post and whiff them all completely:
  • Zach doesnt have many suitors at that deal, its been widely reported. You telling me you know FO pulse better than Woj/Shams?
  • He is not a neutral or a positive at that deal, and ever since he has been out Chicago has been playing much better. He has a long history of losing and you cannot really argue about not having players around him. He was also one of the main reasons Lauri's growth and role got stunted in Chicago, as he is incapable of making the smart pass and elevating players around him, and turns into a black hole late in games
  • Collins is not a negative at all. Last season on that same deal Hawks got calls at least from Pels, Suns and Wizards in addition to us, but they were asking too much. In the offseason Zach Lowe reported that the Bucks were seriously considering trading him before we made the deal. The risk was the finger injury and 3pt percentage, but those are now mitigated. Whether he fits here or not doesnt make him any lesser of a player, or his deal any worse as a deal.
  • The fourth whiff is that obviously we all wont agree that taking his contract was a mistake.
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Shams literally listed out teams that were interested and many other teams have been mentioned as possibly interested. If you’re going to take loose rumors for Collins, you must also do the same for Lavine.

Lavine being positive or negative is not determined by you. And the person I was talking to literally agreed that LaVine is more valuable than Collins, so there’s no point in discussing that part.

Collins improved his 3 point shooting, he is also having his least efficient season ever because he is no longer amazing at the thing he was best at. Yes, if a player plays like crap he does lose value. It absolutely makes him on a worse deal if he’s having a bad season and we are showcasing him that way.

To each their own. I was in favor of this trade to begin with, turns out it has been a really poor use of our cap space. If you seriously are happy with Collins on a 2/$52….I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I don't think LaVine is a ball hog, he just isn't a ball mover. For a primary scoring option he has fairly low usage.
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I think he’s a talented idiot. I don’t see him as selfish I think he’s just dumb but he’s super productive when engaged. For a high level team I think he’d make too many mistakes.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I don't think LaVine is a ball hog, he just isn't a ball mover. For a primary scoring option he has fairly low usage.
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He’s actually a really talented player who can play in different situations. Unfortunately I think he’s just not smart/engaged enough and has spent too long in a bad situation. His habits are probably irreversible….but if he spent most of his career with Miami or something like that he’d be a real stud.
 
Kind of a crazy KO stat: He has never had a negative DBPM in his career outside of his rookie season.
 
SLCHooper said:
ALSO, this https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/...den-state-warriors-og-anunoby-lauri-markkanen

the ringer suggests a trade between GSW and UTA...which I kinda like.. ☝️
Kuminga, Moody, Payton II and 2 Uprotected FRP's.
for
Lauri Markkanen
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****kkkkkkkkk no

1. I'm not giving Lauri to the Warriors
2. That's not enough. I dont believe in Kuminga and I dont view Moody as being good enough to headline a Lauri trade.
3. Has to be 3 picks to trade Lauri if there is no potential all-star headlining the package.
 
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