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framer said:
This crap is so overrated. The only way you find out if you have a top 10 or 20 player is to make the playoffs. Do well, and "poof" you are a "top 10 player." The ranking follows success not the other way around. Jazz just need to win, improve, and use their assets well, and the "ranking" will take care of itself.
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I think its not overrated, but you are correct that we just rank guys based on the bulk of games (regular season) and end up missing the point. Who can carry their team in playoffs is why we need the guy. I will give you few examples:

Player 1 career:
AppearancesPPGFG%3P%APGRPG
Regular Season42127.750.333.83.611.2
Playoffs5324.046.128.02.810.9

Player 2 career:
AppearancesPPGFG%3P%APGRPG
Regular Season43417.144.937.54.33.7
Playoffs5325.047.340.46.35.0

Players 1 and 2 have pretty similar career game counts on both regular season and postseason. Player 1 CLEARLY outperforms player 2 in the regular season (player 2 has never even managed to score over 21 PPG), but in the playoffs it seems player 2 is better than player 1? At the very least he seems to elevate his play in a big way.

Those two guys are Joel Embiid and Jamal Murray. Former is a lock in every top 5 and I cannot ever remember seeing Murray even in top 10.

Just for comp, here is "playoff Jimmy":
AppearancesPPGFG%3P%APGRPG
Regular Season77818.246.732.44.25.3
Playoffs11921.346.034.74.66.2

And here is one of Embiid's main MVP rivals Giannis:
AppearancesPPGFG%3P%APGRPG
Regular Season75523.154.128.54.89.7
Playoffs7926.652.726.15.212.0

So the main point here is, that some players are great in the regular season, but cannot elevate or even hold that level in the playoffs, while others can clearly play better when the chips are down.
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
That’s not our biggest problem. Our biggest problem is we need a top 10 nba player.
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No existing top 10 player (or top 20 for that matter) is coming to Utah either by the FA route or via a trade, but that's common knowledge.

Waiting for one to arrive via the draft is a horrible strategy as well. Maybe just keep improving the team, keep climbing, keep making more and more noise.

When you get to a certain level, the stroke of luck you need to put you over the hump doesn't need to be gigantic anymore.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
No existing top 10 player (or top 20 for that matter) is coming to Utah either by the FA route or via a trade, but that's common knowledge.

Waiting for one to arrive via the draft is a horrible strategy as well. Maybe just keep improving the team, keep climbing, keep making more and more noise.

When you get to a certain level, the stroke of luck you need to put you over the hump doesn't need to be gigantic anymore.
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Jazz can definitely trade for a top-20 guy. Not sure why they wouldn't. I could also make an argument that Lauri is already a borderline top 20 player.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Jazz can definitely trade for a top-20 guy. Not sure why they wouldn't.
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They are not available and are mostly in control of their own destiny anyway. Utah is not a preferred long-term destination. Haven't we gone through this a million times?

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I could also make an argument that Lauri is already a borderline top 20 player.
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Sure, but trading for another top 20 guy would mean giving up Lauri, which kind of defeats the purpose. The top 20 players of the NBA are all veterans with similar timelines as Markkanen.
 
Denver is the model for the Jazz. You draft your top two players and churn through the draft until you draft quality. Trade for an Aaron Gordon. And get a semi flawed great player like Michael Porter.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
No existing top 10 player (or top 20 for that matter) is coming to Utah either by the FA route or via a trade, but that's common knowledge.

Waiting for one to arrive via the draft is a horrible strategy as well. Maybe just keep improving the team, keep climbing, keep making more and more noise.

When you get to a certain level, the stroke of luck you need to put you over the hump doesn't need to be gigantic anymore.
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I simply stated our biggest problem.
 
framer said:
This crap is so overrated. The only way you find out if you have a top 10 or 20 player is to make the playoffs. Do well, and "poof" you are a "top 10 player." The ranking follows success not the other way around. Jazz just need to win, improve, and use their assets well, and the "ranking" will take care of itself.
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Lmao.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Utah is following an OKC model if there is a model that is being followed.

Traded away stars to get a load of assets and got a pre-all star in the trades.
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I would say they are following a bit of their own model... unless they trade off pieces to sink down and get their "chet" the model isn't a great one to follow since Lauri just isn't going to hit SGA levels.

The model to me is get a top 10 talent somehow... draft, trade, FA is very unlikely so whatevs. This does not mean you ignore everything else like some state lol. This simply means you work to get a top 10 talent while building everything else... roster, future assets, cap flexibility. Even if you had a guy like Paolo or Barnes that you can squint and see a scenario where they become a top 10 or 15 guy you can really start to build and take solid steps forward. Lauri is very good and may be like 15-25 ish and you ride it out as long as you can to find another guy in his tier or higher to pair with him but at some point if it isn't lining up the best thing may be to kick the can down the road and move him for future assets. It gets harder to do because fans, gms, owners get restless. I'd say trade deadline next year or 2025 offseason is the latest you want to do it.

I do think its a shame if we are still in the middle of the road path for the 2025 draft as I think it could be pretty great.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I would say they are following a bit of their own model... unless they trade off pieces to sink down and get their "chet" the model isn't a great one to follow since Lauri just isn't going to hit SGA levels.

The model to me is get a top 10 talent somehow... draft, trade, FA is very unlikely so whatevs. This does not mean you ignore everything else like some state lol. This simply means you work to get a top 10 talent while building everything else... roster, future assets, cap flexibility. Even if you had a guy like Paolo or Barnes that you can squint and see a scenario where they become a top 10 or 15 guy you can really start to build and take solid steps forward. Lauri is very good and may be like 15-25 ish and you ride it out as long as you can to find another guy in his tier or higher to pair with him but at some point if it isn't lining up the best thing may be to kick the can down the road and move him for future assets. It gets harder to do because fans, gms, owners get restless. I'd say trade deadline next year or 2025 offseason is the latest you want to do it.

I do think its a shame if we are still in the middle of the road path for the 2025 draft as I think it could be pretty great.
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The OKC model or one of the tenets is also get guys that can handle, pass, and hopefully teach them to shoot. We don't seem as fixated on that concept.
 
Also for those that think we can't trade for an all star. We traded for Conley, Lauri, and kind of for Don and Rudy (trade and draft scenario). We signed an all-star in FA as well in Boozer. It can happen.

There are lots of ways to get top 10 talent... but almost all of your attempts in all areas will come up short. Just need to maximize the amount of attempts and probability of success... then cross your effing fingers.
 
Udidthizz said:
I'm with you with the interest in Jovic. Unfortunately the more burn he gets the less likely the Heat are to give him up.
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Probably, they know who they have better than anyone.

I could see them using him to upgrade their roster though. I'm almost positive he was included in the trade talks for Dame this summer. Maybe they think KO or Clarkson would meet their immediate needs better?
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Probably, they know who they have better than anyone.

I could see them using him to upgrade their roster though. I'm almost positive he was included in the trade talks for Dame this summer. Maybe they think KO or Clarkson would meet their immediate needs better?
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I don't think we have a player that would get it done. If we wanted to throw them a pick I'm sure they'd talk as they could re-route for a guy like Dame or Don later. Might be a three team type of thing this summer. Heat think they can grow their role players or pick them up off the scrap heap... and they are right most of the time.
 
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