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Collin Sexton SZN

If Keyonte comes in killing to start year 2 that would make any decision on selling Sexton much easier.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And I don't think Sexton is hard to trade. He makes sense on any team with a jumbo sized playmaker.
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It's not that simple. Sexton is too small for a pure shooting guard no matter who he plays with. Also, he can make spot-up 3's, but he isn't anyone's idea of an off the ball player. His idea of "moving without the ball" is standing in place and clapping furiously.

Bottom line is, he needs to start and have the ball all the time to produce the kind of individual results/stats we've seen lately. And I don't think there are any teams willing to give him that type of role. Once again, he's not an unknown quantity in the league. He's probably seen as a microwave scorer off the bench, even after his good play as a starter this season. And Collin himself won't be happy with a role like that in the long run.

IMO trading him right now would be stupid.
 
KqWIN said:
I just mean there aren’t many teams that would be interested in paying the price that would get that kind of player. Like if NYK put Randle on the block, it would have to be a very specific team situation for them to be a buyer. It’s like the opposite of someone like Mikal where every single team would be interested no matter their situation and roster composition. Of course Randle would get interest and have value, but he’s a tougher fit despite how productive he is. Likewise, Sexton was put on the trade market, I bet the offers would be disappointing and probably not worth the value he’s delivering to the team.
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Exactly. Moving him now would be the epitome of trading a guy just to trade him. The scary thing is, I can easily see Danny doing it. He can't leave well enough alone.
 
KqWIN said:
Personally, I would only put Lauri in that group. And the only decision to make on Lauri is to build around him or tank, he can play with everyone.
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He's a tier or three above those guys. I am thinking the theory of this iteration of the team is centered around those 3 and moves need to be considered with them in mind... unless they are removed. Its part of why I hated the Collins deal. It really doesn't fit with Walker and in my mind he is the one that provides the baseline defensive competency we need to be competitive. I think Collin's hyper efficient volume scoring has been critical in pushing us from bottom 6-7 to play in team. If you are making mid-sized and major moves those guys need to be part of the consideration. Lauri can play with anyone... its part of his super powers. Collin and Walker can't.

This wouldn't apply to drafting much at all btw. I think there you just have to take the prospects you feel best about.

As far as tanking goes... if you remove Collin/Walker without a similar but different replacement then i think you are going to be bottom 8-9 even with Lauri. I don't think that is really tanking but I think its a material impact from where I think we are... and enough of a step back that I'd just go ahead and cash in on Lauri too.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Exactly. Moving him now would be the epitome of trading a guy just to trade him. The scary thing is, I can easily see Danny doing it. He can't leave well enough alone.
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I think the way to put it with Collin is he should be more valuable to us than to an acquirer. I think there would be a value gap that is hard to work through. I also wouldn't be surprised if DA did make a move but I'd hope it would be an absolute haul if we did. The proposed Jazzfanz deal of a pick from the Lakers, Dlo, and removing the protections on the other pick... plus hopefully a swap somewhere is like the low end of what I'd personally want. I don't think the Lakers should offer it though... they aren't a Collin Sexton away from being a contender.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
It's not that simple. Sexton is too small for a pure shooting guard no matter who he plays with. Also, he can make spot-up 3's, but he isn't anyone's idea of an off the ball player. His idea of "moving without the ball" is standing in place and clapping furiously.

Bottom line is, he needs to start and have the ball all the time to produce the kind of individual results/stats we've seen lately. And I don't think there are any teams willing to give him that type of role. Once again, he's not an unknown quantity in the league. He's probably seen as a microwave scorer off the bench, even after his good play as a starter this season. And Collin himself won't be happy with a role like that in the long run.

IMO trading him right now would be stupid.
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I don't think he needs the ball all the time. I think he is getting his mostly inside the offense and is working off ball plenty. thats all observation though and the numbers may say something else.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
If Keyonte comes in killing to start year 2 that would make any decision on selling Sexton much easier.
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I think if you move Collin draft night is the time to do it. He has like 25 games of great play... stack another 35 games on top of it and his value will be quite a bit higher imo. Wouldn't give you a chance to see Year 2 Key yet but you'd have a general idea of how his summer is progressing.

I don't think the offers we would get will match what I think he is worth.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's a tier or three above those guys. I am thinking the theory of this iteration of the team is centered around those 3 and moves need to be considered with them in mind... unless they are removed. Its part of why I hated the Collins deal. It really doesn't fit with Walker and in my mind he is the one that provides the baseline defensive competency we need to be competitive. I think Collin's hyper efficient volume scoring has been critical in pushing us from bottom 6-7 to play in team. If you are making mid-sized and major moves those guys need to be part of the consideration. Lauri can play with anyone... its part of his super powers. Collin and Walker can't.

This wouldn't apply to drafting much at all btw. I think there you just have to take the prospects you feel best about.

As far as tanking goes... if you remove Collin/Walker without a similar but different replacement then i think you are going to be bottom 8-9 even with Lauri. I don't think that is really tanking but I think its a material impact from where I think we are... and enough of a step back that I'd just go ahead and cash in on Lauri too.
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It’s a sliding scale, I’m not at the point where you 100% dismiss Collin and Kessler when making moves….but I’d consider to a much lesser degree than yourself. I think there’s a danger in trying to put all the pieces together at once, and one of those issues is you can’t always be certain you have the pieces you want.

Kessler and Sexton are hard to fit around and I’m just not sure they’re good enough to hard commit to and build around. For example, I’m not sure if Kessler’s best role on a team isn’t what he’s doing now or something similar to it. I also don’t think Sexton is a player who we pivot the entire offense on and put him as the sole ball handler. I don’t think you were one of these people, but no less than a few weeks ago the trade thread had a bunch of posts saying we absolutely cannot disrupt Collin’s situation.

When acquiring new players, I still think there is some importance to asking what that means for Sexton and Kessler. But I would just caution to put too much emphasis on it and miss on opportunities/hitch our wagon to something not going anywhere. It’s kind of funny because Sexton and Kessler are like Walmart versions of Mitchell and Gobert. We had questions about building around those two because of their imperfect flexibility as players. I don’t think Sexton and Kessler need to get to that level to consider them a true building block, but they still got some ground to make up for me to really emphasize it.
 
KqWIN said:
It’s a sliding scale, I’m not at the point where you 100% dismiss Collin and Kessler when making moves….but I’d consider to a much lesser degree than yourself. I think there’s a danger in trying to put all the pieces together at once, and one of those issues is you can’t always be certain you have the pieces you want.

Kessler and Sexton are hard to fit around and I’m just not sure they’re good enough to hard commit to and build around. For example, I’m not sure if Kessler’s best role on a team isn’t what he’s doing now or something similar to it. I also don’t think Sexton is a player who we pivot the entire offense on and put him as the sole ball handler. I don’t think you were one of these people, but no less than a few weeks ago the trade thread had a bunch of posts saying we absolutely cannot disrupt Collin’s situation.

When acquiring new players, I still think there is some importance to asking what that means for Sexton and Kessler. But I would just caution to put too much emphasis on it and miss on opportunities/hitch our wagon to something not going anywhere. It’s kind of funny because Sexton and Kessler are like Walmart versions of Mitchell and Gobert. We had questions about building around those two because of their imperfect flexibility as players. I don’t think Sexton and Kessler need to get to that level to consider them a true building block, but they still got some ground to make up for me to really emphasize it.
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I think there may be some pivot moves where you swap out Kessler and Sexton... and if there are BIG moves you can do that conflict with those guys that's okay. I think all the medium term moves of substance should weigh those two until further notice I guess. No more acquiring John Collins or THT rehab projects that will conflict I guess. If you get a chance for a bigger playmaker you probably do it whether you have Collin or not as they fit so many iterations.

I guess I'm saying those guys are the non-lauri parts of this core I plan around medium term. If you are moving them it better be for an upgrade or a premium young asset. Like at draft time if you target a prospect in the top 10 you love then go on ahead. Getting some future draft picks with upside is nice but that's not what I think we should be doing with those two.

With Walker I think you should start him and play him around 30 minutes a night. He needs more time with Lauri imo. If he isn't THE GUY that is okay but Lauri is likely to need a rim protecting center out there, so Walker's replacement or upgrade likely looks more like Walker than John Collins.

The most bankable things we have going for us are Lauri's offense, Walker's rim protection, and Collin's efficient volume scoring and right now you plan around that until you find something more bankable.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think there may be some pivot moves where you swap out Kessler and Sexton... and if there are BIG moves you can do that conflict with those guys that's okay. I think all the medium term moves of substance should weigh those two until further notice I guess. No more acquiring John Collins or THT rehab projects that will conflict I guess. If you get a chance for a bigger playmaker you probably do it whether you have Collin or not as they fit so many iterations.

I guess I'm saying those guys are the non-lauri parts of this core I plan around medium term. If you are moving them it better be for an upgrade or a premium young asset. Like at draft time if you target a prospect in the top 10 you love then go on ahead. Getting some future draft picks with upside is nice but that's not what I think we should be doing with those two.

With Walker I think you should start him and play him around 30 minutes a night. He needs more time with Lauri imo. If he isn't THE GUY that is okay but Lauri is likely to need a rim protecting center out there, so Walker's replacement or upgrade likely looks more like Walker than John Collins.

The most bankable things we have going for us are Lauri's offense, Walker's rim protection, and Collin's efficient volume scoring and right now you plan around that until you find something more bankable.
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It's been a busy day, so I've only been able to kinda skim the board, but I think I agree with almost everything you have been posting today.

So thanks for maybe representing my thoughts on everything.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It's been a busy day, so I've only been able to kinda skim the board, but I think I agree with almost everything you have been posting today.

So thanks for maybe representing my thoughts on everything.
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Thank you... I wasn't sure it was super clear.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It's been a busy day, so I've only been able to kinda skim the board, but I think I agree with almost everything you have been posting today.

So thanks for maybe representing my thoughts on everything.
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There is multiple times I go to post something but see that HH has posted something similar to what I would say so I just let it be.
 
HermanG said:
Only 24.2 mpg though. So with similar usage, efficiency and 30 mpg his counting stats would go up to around 23/5/3.

I think he can push them even a bit higher without turning inefficient or overly disruptive.
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It's much more likely that his efficiency goes down as his usage (which is already high IMO) goes up. They tend to correlate inversely in the NBA in the long run.

I doubt Collin can keep up even his current level of efficiency. He never has before.
 
HermanG said:
Only 24.2 mpg though. So with similar usage, efficiency and 30 mpg his counting stats would go up to around 23/5/3.

I think he can push them even a bit higher without turning inefficient or overly disruptive.
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The more interesting question with SExton to me is how he can perform in the clutch.

The Jazz are heavily Clarkson dependent in that department. Sexton;s game will probably have issues translating
 
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