Game Thread Feb 14, 2024 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Lakers

[HermanG]

We will probably keep getting blown out and the teams below us will keep losing as well. Give up our pick, have no shot at the playoffs, and have unwatchable basketball.
Ainge is ruining the franchise.

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What I'm most worried about is that they might be poisoning the drinking water. Hardy has done a terrific job at trying to build a culture of working hard and winning... and the players have bought in and helped create that. But the FO has now twice sabotaged that in the middle of the season.

Its like if your boss would ask you to work hard for the company with an extra bonus at the end (reaching the playoffs for the first time). Then you put in extra hours and effort, and have a chance to reach the goal when they all of a sudden lay off half your team leaving you with no chance to get that bonus. And then they repeat that the next year, but this time around you even had massive struggles at the start to get the project up and running.

 

[sip]

I think the clunky play of Hendricks is going to allow defenders to focus even more on Laurie and he's going to get frustrated as hell on offense.

Damn you are reaching so hard. Hendricks is going to be just fine as a floor spacing big. He has a nice shooting stroke and confidence in his outside shot.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But this is a team building error, not a en error on overall talent.

FO has traded out 3 rotation players in each of the last 2 years DL. And they havent traded single one of our turnover prone hero ball combo guards, leaving the roster at a massive imbalance where we overflow with the most useless player archtype in the modern NBA while lacking the best ones (like off ball shooters). I mean we have 5 combo guards in rotation right now, with only 1 frontcourt player who can shoot the 3 at a high level and create space for those guys.

I think there is also an argument that you can go get a couple offball shooters and move on from the combo guards and get back the balance we had. IDK I think our season went awry when we decided to do the John Collins side quest which has played out almost exactly how I thought it would. The profit on that deal was always going to be made on the front end of the deal by making Atlanta give a pick to trade him. Now he’s been good but proven the player type is not really worth what he’s paid even when playing well.

Hopefully this summer they are able to move John or move him to a bench role and just realize you already lost that trade DA.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What I'm most worried about is that they might be poisoning the drinking water. Hardy has done a terrific job at trying to build a culture of working hard and winning... and the players have bought in and helped create that. But the FO has now twice sabotaged that in the middle of the season.

Its like if your boss would ask you to work hard for the company with an extra bonus at the end (reaching the playoffs for the first time). Then you put in extra hours and effort, and have a chance to reach the goal when they all of a sudden lay off half your team leaving you with no chance to get that bonus. And then they repeat that the next year, but this time around you even had massive struggles at the start to get the project up and running.

That’s a legit worry but I also think those same team members can look around and see how much better they are at their job and see how they all improved their individual value and recommit.

For DA to pull it off he needs to do some legit win-now moves to strengthen the teams resolve. Putting around with reclamation projects isn’t enough. Get some long term pieces that fit.

 

[HermanG]

I think there is also an argument that you can go get a couple offball shooters and move on from the combo guards and get back the balance we had. IDK I think our season went awry when we decided to do the John Collins side quest which has played out almost exactly how I thought it would. The profit on that deal was always going to be made on the front end of the deal by making Atlanta give a pick to trade him. Now he’s been good but proven the player type is not really worth what he’s paid even when playing well.

Hopefully this summer they are able to move John or move him to a bench role and just realize you already lost that trade DA.

That is definitely true. But this entire forum has yelled for a while that they need to consolidate, and they didnt do anything.

Collins decission was not great but we were 8-6 in December, 10-6 in January and 2-1 in February before the Simone and KO trades. And our 3 February games contained wins over Bucks and Thunder. This wasnt a bad team (with Collins), but they just had trouble figuring out that they need to install him as a stretch-5 with the 5-out lineup. Then they bulldozed that lineup by trading out Simone, who had a unique skillset for our team (while still holding on to the 5 combo guards).

 

[HermanG]

That’s a legit worry but I also think those same team members can look around and see how much better they are at their job and see how they all improved their individual value and recommit.

For DA to pull it off he needs to do some legit win-now moves to strengthen the teams resolve. Putting around with reclamation projects isn’t enough. Get some long term pieces that fit.

Exactly what I'm thinking. We either need to buy big or sell big this next offseason. Cannot keep this value hunting business up any longer.

 

[Elizah Huge]

But this is a team building error, not a en error on overall talent.

FO has traded out 3 rotation players in each of the last 2 years DL. And they havent traded single one of our turnover prone hero ball combo guards, leaving the roster at a massive imbalance where we overflow with the most useless player archtype in the modern NBA while lacking the best ones (like off ball shooters). I mean we have 5 combo guards in rotation right now, with only 1 frontcourt player who can shoot the 3 at a high level and create space for those guys.

What is the point in making the play-in if guys like Simone and Olynyk are big reasons why. What does that do for us?

 

[HermanG]

What is the point in making the play-in if guys like Simone and Olynyk are big reasons why. What does that do for us?

Those guys arent the reason. Their skillsets are. Its about having a functional team. Replace them with two rookies... Cason Wallace and Marcus Sasser, and we are still a functional team.

But right now....
We have 1 good offensive offball player left. Lauri.
We have 1 good 3 point shooter left in our frontcourt. Lauri.
We have 1 good perimeter defender left. Dunn
We have 0.5 good passing playmakers left. Early season Keyonte.

Meanwhile, we have still have 285 dribbling combo guards left

 

[homeytennis]

I just went back and watched that awful third quarter and it appears to me that Hardy first just got outcoached. Collins did not do as bad as everyone thinks. Kessler was hideous. I don't think we have seen defense this bad since the Clippers playoff debacle. The guards were just bad, putrid. All of them. A lot of it I blame on scheme and then offensive play calls/reads at the other end. I didn't think Rui could score 33 unguarded but he did.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

We will probably keep getting blown out and the teams below us will keep losing as well. Give up our pick, have no shot at the playoffs, and have unwatchable basketball.
Ainge is ruining the franchise.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

This is exactly how I feel, but three ugly losses will do that. Fourth coming tonight. There better be something happen with the upcoming draft or things are going to get horribly ugly. Once there are empty seats in the Delta Center Smith will have to make some uncomfortable decisions. Ainge's future may be involved in those decisions if he doesn't pull something out of his ***, and do it soon.

 

[homeytennis]

This is exactly how I feel, but three ugly losses will do that. Fourth coming tonight. There better be something happen with the upcoming draft or things are going to get horribly ugly. Once there are empty seats in the Delta Center Smith will have to make some uncomfortable decisions. Ainge's future may be involved in those decisions if he doesn't pull something out of his ***, and do it soon.

It's hard to believe but we were actually ahead by four I think in the third quarter at one point. It might be time for another Hardy rant.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

The saddest part last night was the look Lauri had on his face at the end of the game. Years ago I had to decipline my dog(a puppy then) for peeing in the house. He had exactly that same look when I was done.

 

[KqWIN]

time zone back to back special. We never lose these.

whoops

 

[Tremendous Upside]

This is exactly how I feel, but three ugly losses will do that. Fourth coming tonight. There better be something happen with the upcoming draft or things are going to get horribly ugly. Once there are empty seats in the Delta Center Smith will have to make some uncomfortable decisions. Ainge's future may be involved in those decisions if he doesn't pull something out of his ***, and do it soon.

I dunno. He feels like he's operating with the confidence of a carte blanche holder. A lot has to happen for us to move on from Ainge. He may decide to quit, of course.

 

[HeatCheck]

That is definitely true. But this entire forum has yelled for a while that they need to consolidate, and they didnt do anything.

Collins decission was not great but we were 8-6 in December, 10-6 in January and 2-1 in February before the Simone and KO trades. And our 3 February games contained wins over Bucks and Thunder. This wasnt a bad team (with Collins), but they just had trouble figuring out that they need to install him as a stretch-5 with the 5-out lineup. Then they bulldozed that lineup by trading out Simone, who had a unique skillset for our team (while still holding on to the 5 combo guards).

FWIW it seems Ainge did try to offload a few of those combo guards specifically Clarkson and THT. JC even went to the media to let it be known he was fine going to the Knicks. Obviously the market wasn't there for either of them. JC shooting 3's at a 28% clip in the weeks leading up to the deadline didn't help his cause either especially when he's making $23 mil this season.

The team did buy into all the Hardy rah-rah stuff about passing the ball and having pride to play for the Jazz so can definitely see why they would feel a bit betrayed by the FO here.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly what I'm thinking. We either need to buy big or sell big this next offseason. Cannot keep this value hunting business up any longer.

They don’t even need to be big per se. Imagine if we had signed Max Strus last offseason instead of trading for JC. You’d have a better asset and a much better team that fits. A move or two that are solid but not necessarily star moves would go a long way if they consider roster fit etc.

If a big move comes that makes sense then great. Don’t have to force something. But build where you can while the youngsters catch up.

Or… trade Lauri for a haul and tank the effs outta this B for a few years.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

They don’t even need to be big per se. Imagine if we had signed Max Strus last offseason instead of trading for JC. You’d have a better asset and a much better team that fits. A move or two that are solid but not necessarily star moves would go a long way if they consider roster fit etc.

If a big move comes that makes sense then great. Don’t have to force something. But build where you can while the youngsters catch up.

Or… trade Lauri for a haul and tank the effs outta this B for a few years.

You sure he'll still bring back a haul after they stink up the joint the rest of the way and Lauri averages like 12/5 before sitting out the last 3 weeks with a "shoulder injury"?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You sure he'll still bring back a haul after they stink up the joint the rest of the way and Lauri averages like 12/5 before sitting out the last 3 weeks with a "shoulder injury"?

Yes… he would bring back a haul. Unless he does some Miles Bridges stuff or tears his Achilles he will have tremendous value.

 

[Nate505]

Those trades just gutted the spirit and soul of this team.

Early this season I quit watching because the product was horrible (and just as importantly but more generally, I'm detesting the modern NBA play style), but they can't together and became watchable.

Guess Ainge wasn't having that. Oh well, at least I can save $20 a month and cancel League Pass and find other ways to waste my time.

Who am I kidding, that won't happen. I'll just keep paying and fast forward the games in disgust.

 

[416Klawzz]

Rui would have been a great pick up, many didn't think that way ...