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God and Country

I don't think we've had any social construct that is more divisive than religion in the history of human civilization. Not many forces have been so destructive as religion, even while it's been so instrumental in shaping societal morals and the family structure. It's really an interesting dichotomy, but I believe the net effect has been more negative than positive.
Good post though I think it's been slightly more positive.
I appreciate religion even if I dont understand it or practice it

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Good post though I think it's been slightly more positive.
I appreciate religion even if I dont understand it or practice it

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Idk, I try to look at the total cost vs the gain to get us where we are right now. I'm not sure it's worth things like human sacrifices, the inquisition, or jihad, or even the small things, like cutting people off or disowning them or discriminating against them for not practicing the "right" religions, for the positives we have from religion in society. That's why I feel it's a net negative overall.
 
The whole Christian Nationalist panic is a farce, but you know what isn't a farce? Supporters of Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib are chanting "Death to America" and you look the other way because they're on your team. Call that what you want to talk your way around it but the side you are on is chanting "Death to America".
And you know what’s even worse than American citizens, of any stripe, chanting “death to America”? As far from a farce as it gets? Israel killing innocent Palestinian children by the thousands.
 
“Christian nationalist panic”

Yep. Cuz nationalist religious beliefs aren’t already subverting settled law (abortion, Matthew Kacsmaryk and birth control, IVF), Trump worship (I wanna die if he loses), book bans and CRT DEI panic, and Jan 6.

If you don’t see Christian nationalism and its obvious ascendency in America today, it’s because you’re willingly sticking your head in the sand.
 
f you don’t see Christian nationalism and its obvious ascendency in America today, it’s because you’re willingly sticking your head in the sand.
It not in obvious ascendancy. It is in decline. Ascendency and decline are statistical terms. Stop looking at anecdotes and look at the statistics. Religion, including Christianity, is in collapse in America.

I'm not saying there aren't any Christian Nationalists but I am contrasting the group with the 'Death to America' chanters. There was the Charlottesville rally a few years ago which was organized by the group who organized Occupy Wall Street and the featured speaker being Richard Spencer who endorsed Joe Biden, but we'll pretend they're right wing. A hundred or so marched with Walmart tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us" here in America. Now, compare that to the 'Death to America' chanters who hijacked airlines to crash them into buildings here in America. It is marching with tiki torches not wanting to be replaced versus wishing you dead and proving it by killing thousands of infidels with airplanes.

There are different flavors of cuckoo birds but I think it nonsensical to judge the tiki torcher marchers to be a bigger threat than the airline hijacking infidel killers.
 
And you know what’s even worse than American citizens, of any stripe, chanting “death to America”? As far from a farce as it gets? Israel killing innocent Palestinian children by the thousands.
Maybe, but it says something to be more outraged at Israel killing innocent Palestinian children by the thousands than Hamas killing innocent Palestinian children by the tens of thousands.
 
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It’s pretty obvious that some of you are conflating Christian nationalism with Christianity. Until you do your reading homework, you should probably abstain from further embarrassment.





Or conflating nationalism with patriotism. Not the same thing.

Nationalism is ALWAYS a means by which a group excludes others. That is the very point of nationalism. So Christian nationalism means that only Christians are considered true Americans and everyone else is a second class (at best) citizen.
 
Or conflating nationalism with patriotism. Not the same thing.

Nationalism is ALWAYS a means by which a group excludes others. That is the very point of nationalism. So Christian nationalism means that only Christians are considered true Americans and everyone else is a second class (at best) citizen.
Good post.

It’s interesting how Christian nationalism doesn’t seem to be surging among some of the most devout in America: African American Evangelicals. Might have something to do with them understanding that CN is less about Christianity and more about Nationalism; re-establishing the social-racial hierarchy of the past.

So yes, you’re absolutely correct. The nationalism part is focused on excluding others (non-white) from American political and economic power).
 
Christian nationalism means that only Christians are considered true Americans and everyone else is a second class (at best) citizen.
Okay, fine. I can go with that definition. Now show me statistically how religious-based privilege is on the rise for Christians and simultaneously on the decline for non-Christians.
 
The nationalism part is focused on excluding others (non-white) from American political and economic power).
You are a moron. You accept Sardines definition of Christian Nationalism placing Christians in a higher class, and in Americas 63% of White Americans identify as Christian while 75% of Black Americans identify as Christian. Sardines definition of Christian Nationalism, which you have already insisted is on the ascendency, would be elevating disproportionality more Black Americans into the upper class and disproportionately disadvantaging disproportionately more White Americans. Then you pull a 180 to claim Christian Nationalism is focused on excluding non-white people because clearly intellectual consistency isn't a thing you posses.
 
Okay, fine. I can go with that definition. Now show me statistically how religious-based privilege is on the rise for Christians and simultaneously on the decline for non-Christians.
I've never made that claim. Nor would I. Christian Nationalism is a response to the loss of power by white, rural, Christians. Christians ARE LOSING POWER. An they are terrified. Thus Christian Nationalism.
 
Christian Nationalism is a response to the loss of power by white, rural, Christians.
How do you reconcile your belief of Christian Nationalism being a response of White people with the actual statistics showing the core ideology being ethnically diverse with Black Americans being the most statistically likely to hold the belief? The statistics show that it isn't a White thing and that it is consistently dying out despite the claims of some who believe rises or falls are proven by statistical change in how often mentions show up their media feeds.

PRRI-Jan-2023-White-Nationalism-fig_7-882x1024.png
 
This seemed to fit in this thread ok.

Some of Christianity’s most reputable leaders are concerned with the rise of Christian nationalism. For those who aren’t familiar with Russell Moore, google him. He isn’t exactly some lefty.


Conservative writer Tim Alberta seems concerned. In fact, his book talks about how Christian nationalism is infecting many Christian sects in America, displacing Christ with replacing radical politics.


David French has written extensively on the rise of Christian nationalism in Republican politics. Is he liberal? Is he not religious? Google him.


This is a good interview from a reputable source:


People need to troll less about subjects they know little about and read more.
 
Idk, I try to look at the total cost vs the gain to get us where we are right now. I'm not sure it's worth things like human sacrifices, the inquisition, or jihad, or even the small things, like cutting people off or disowning them or discriminating against them for not practicing the "right" religions, for the positives we have from religion in society. That's why I feel it's a net negative overall.
It’s hard to tell because how much of your moral philosophy behavior is influenced by your religion? It always amazes me that people I know and grew up with in the same community, stake, or ward can listen to the same message and come away with completely different (outward) behavioral results. Is religion a net positive or negative? Or does it merely enhance those preexisting urges and prejudices?
 
David French has written extensively on the rise of Christian nationalism in Republican politics. Is he liberal? Is he not religious? Google him.
I don't have to Google him. I am very familiar with French's work. He used to be prominent at National Review but he is a neocon, not a conservative, and he left National Review due to ideological differences. He is so neocon that Bill Kristol floated him as a third party Presidential candidate. A large part of his output since leaving National Review has been attacks on the American political right. It registers a zero on the surprise meter that he's trying this same nonsensical attack as the rest of those critical of the American political right. However, even if David French was a conservative or a Republican, that still doesn't address the statistics showing Christian Nationalism on the decline or the adherents being demographically diverse. How about you deal the in the real world for once instead of parroting other people's half baked opinions?
 
How do you reconcile your belief of Christian Nationalism being a response of White people with the actual statistics showing the core ideology being ethnically diverse with Black Americans being the most statistically likely to hold the belief? The statistics show that it isn't a White thing and that it is consistently dying out despite the claims of some who believe rises or falls are proven by statistical change in how often mentions show up their media feeds.

PRRI-Jan-2023-White-Nationalism-fig_7-882x1024.png
I don't have to reconcile those things because they aren't connected.
Christian Nationalism isn't something inherent to Christianity or individual Christians.
Christian Nationalism is a response by a small group of people who feel like this country used to be a reflection of their values, beliefs, and that they were particularly included in the national identity... and then a trans person did an ad for bud lite, a black person became president, schools were not defaulting to religious messages about our world and our society.

Most Americans are Christians so this small group is assuming that all Christians feel the way they do and that they don't have to put up with sharing the national identity with "others"
 
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