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Defense next season

I still say the Jazz should look into getting Jonathan Isaac. We should probably be grateful that Orlando is doing so poorly in the playoffs with their lack of offense so he can't further his value. He's someone who could transform the Jazz into a top 15 defense.
 
The short roll issue is an issue, but I still think the biggest issue is his overall vibe. You just dont want someone like him on the court when he's sulking the way he does. He has to believe in himself before we can expect the coaching staff to believe in him.
 
MT Steve said:
The net rating statistic was a fact, not an opinion. Collins at the 5 hurt the defense way more than Kessler at the 5 hurt the offense. It's not even up for debate.

If we had some world-beater at the 5 to give Kessler's minutes too, then yeah he shouldn't expect more minutes than what he got this season. But we didn't - we had Collins.
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Pls don't try to reify some world where "facts" speak for themselves. Which "offense" are you speaking about here? There was clearly an emphasis on developing an offensive repertoire, and the part of the playbook that features Kessler and his skill set was obviously pretty limited — a limitation that mirrors Kessler's skill set. The development I'm speaking about here spans seasons; it's about building a program.
 
I didn't have the chance to watch as many games as closely as I'd like to, but I feel pretty confident in saying that if you were to list Hardy's 5 or 6 best moments of offensive genius this year, then you'd probably have to include the system he installed that essentially extended the dunker's spot (for Kessler, mainly) almost all the way into the corner (and gave that spot some gravity). But when a team that's already starved of playmaking then sells off Olynyk, these sorts of high-wire acts get harder to execute.
 
Walker Kessler: OFF RTG 111.4 DEF RTG 116.0 NET RTG -4.5
John Collins: OFF RTG 114.2 DEF RTG 121.7 NET RTG -7.5
Median NBA OFF RTG 114.7 MEDIAN NBA DEF RTG 114.5

I think the numbers are extremely accurate at telling the story.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Walker Kessler: OFF RTG 111.4 DEF RTG 116.0 NET RTG -4.5
John Collins: OFF RTG 114.2 DEF RTG 121.7 NET RTG -7.5
Median NBA OFF RTG 114.7 MEDIAN NBA DEF RTG 114.5

I think the numbers are extremely accurate at telling the story.
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I'm not trying to be pedantic here, but what exactly do you mean by "the story"?

For me, the story is generally one about emphasizing offensive development over a period of the season when the team had a full complement of players (as opposed to a tanking complement of players). I'd be curious to see these numbers filtered to exclude the tanking portion of the season, but I suspect to see that Kessler was harder on the offense during this period, too. And when I reviewed the tape, I'd expect to see the roles that Kessler was able to play in achieving positive offensive outcomes to be relatively sparse.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Walker Kessler: OFF RTG 111.4 DEF RTG 116.0 NET RTG -4.5
John Collins: OFF RTG 114.2 DEF RTG 121.7 NET RTG -7.5
Median NBA OFF RTG 114.7 MEDIAN NBA DEF RTG 114.5

I think the numbers are extremely accurate at telling the story.
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Looking at that data I would draw the conclusion that with Collins on the court we are a little worse than average on offense and much worse than average on defense. With Kessler on the court we are a little worse than average on offense and a little worse than average on defense.

Neither option looks good.

If neither option is good and wins and losses don't matter then I think it makes more sense to play the younger player who possibly has more upside. Whatever though.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
I'm not trying to be pedantic here, but what exactly do you mean by "the story"?

For me, the story is generally one about emphasizing offensive development over a period of the season when the team had a full complement of players (as opposed to a tanking complement of players). I'd be curious to see these numbers filtered to exclude the tanking portion of the season, but I suspect to see that Kessler was harder on the offense during this period, too. And when I reviewed the tape, I'd expect to see the roles that Kessler was able to play in achieving positive offensive outcomes to be relatively sparse.
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I just meant that the numbers bare out what was visually obvious. Our offense was a league bottom offense when Kessler was on the court, but our defense was more respectable. Our defense was a league bottom defense when Collins was on the court, but our offense was league average.

Neither Kessler's deficiency on offense or Collins' deficiency on defense was made up for by their strengths to our defense or offense respectively. I'll go and look at the numbers separated by pre-post all star break.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The short roll issue is an issue, but I still think the biggest issue is his overall vibe. You just dont want someone like him on the court when he's sulking the way he does. He has to believe in himself before we can expect the coaching staff to believe in him.
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I tend to agree. Like any new skill development is obviously a plus, but he was so much worse this season (on both ends) and that's a different issue. His confidence was destroyed and it showed on both ends. I feel like he still should have gotten more minutes compared to Collins regardless, but if he was at his level of play as a rookie it would have made that much more clear.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Walker Kessler: OFF RTG 111.4 DEF RTG 116.0 NET RTG -4.5
John Collins: OFF RTG 114.2 DEF RTG 121.7 NET RTG -7.5
Median NBA OFF RTG 114.7 MEDIAN NBA DEF RTG 114.5

I think the numbers are extremely accurate at telling the story.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are telling the whole story.

We were dog **** at the early season offensively when we played Lauri, John and Kessler together (OFF RTG 104.8) and we were terrible post ASB when we were blatantly tanking. In between, however, the offense worked significantly better when Collins played as a small ball center. The issue with Collins is that he has been terrible as a PF and even worse as a backup C. In contrast, Kessler has offered roughly the same production whether he has played as a starter or with the bench unit. The question is how much value do you want to give to that reasonably small sample size when the offense was actually humming.

I believe that Kessler will excel as a starting center only if he plays with a p&r guard in the caliber of Doncic, prime Harden or prime Lillard.
 
jazznik said:
Personally, I think that Keyonte and Sensabaugh are already learning bad habits of slacking on defense because they think that to earn minutes and impress they need to do great offensively first and foremost. And that Clarkson has learned that lesson years ago and, consequently, never worked on his defense at all, putting instead all his time in working on new offensive tricks.
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I think it has more to do with these guys not being good defenders to begin with. You need length, strength and physical profile to play good defense. things that our players simply don't possess. You can put in as much effort as you can but it simply won't matter when your opponents are bigger, quicker and stronger than you. This is what basically doomed the DM/Mitchell era. Outside of Rudy, we didn't have any natural defenders on that team. Putting a 6’4 Royce at the PF spot certainly didn't help.
 
To play defense you will need natural defenders. Talking about length, strength and speed. Effort and IQ can only take you this far... We should be targeting Ron Holland in this upcoming draft.
 
jom2003 said:
To play defense you will need natural defenders. Talking about length, strength and speed. Effort and IQ can only take you this far... We should be targeting Ron Holland in this upcoming draft.
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You talk about playing good defense. But for the Jazz a huge improvement would be simply getting their defense from horrible to bad. And you know what? Keyonte and Clarkson do have length and speed to play a much better defense. They simply do not care to put time and effort into it.

Somehow, I am confident that if this team was couched by Sloan the defense would be much better with the same exact personnel. Because Jerry would make them accountable for slacking and not afraid to bench their asses when they are just going through the motions on D.
 
Shad said:
We want to be dead last in defense again for Ace or Flagg.
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We were dead last in defense and it got us the 10th pick. We gotta tank better than that.
 
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