Mathews signs offer sheet w/Blazers (5 yrs/34 mil)

[billyshelby]

It also makes you wonder if the Jazz would have pursued Korver more aggressively (or at all) if they knew what Mathews was going to get the money he did. I would sure as hell take on Korver for the contract he got over Wes and his contract. Less years and less avg dollars per season.

Of course. KOC has to be stunned by this. It's an outrageous offer. If Kyle was still in limbo, I suspect we'd be in deep conversation with his agent right now.

 

[Fakers Luck]

So, I just wrote a long, well thought-out post which would make everyone agree it was worth it to match. I then clicked the "post quick reply" button, and it just bleeping disappeared.

I consider that an omen. Wes is going to be a 3rd stringer for them for a long time. Sitting on the bench so long, I bet he gets fat and has knee problems.

 

[Ben10]

So, I just wrote a long, well thought-out post which would make everyone agree it was worth it to match. I then clicked the "post quick reply" button, and it just bleeping disappeared.

.

LOL, I did the same thing the other day on a post. So I just said F it also.

 

[Harcher]

Can someone with ESPN Insider go look at the existing list of "remaining free agents" as listed by chad ford? An earlier post noted that Shannon Brown is available if that is the case he is a good option.

I think Wes Mathwes is the 2nd comming of bryon russel - will be a good role player next to some superstars and also, he is a product of the Jazz system and he fits the system. In otherwords, his skill set is not "gettin' his own shot" but rather getting an open look as a result of running the offense. There are about 4 teams in NBA that would do that for him. Remember Bruss in the 3pt shooting contest? That was perfect evidence to me that he was a product of the system.

I love Wes's game as most on here have said, but i can't see him a $7M guy for Jazz right now. I would let him go.

Some have said "this is the worst offseason for the Jazz." the writing was on the wall already that the Jazz are going to reformulate... (softer word than rebuild) CB adn KK leaving was a foregone conclusion. Getting Wes signed for a 'normal price' of 4ish was what i expected (hoped?) and then the Jazz prepare for getting their next significant addition for the reformulation.

 

[Zerol]

How the hell can they frontload a contract like that? Do they have the cap room?? $9.2M?? that doesn't make any sense. can someone please explain (or link me to the post that did)?

 

[Borat]

Borat, your hindsight-driven "no matter what they do, I'll find something about it that's less than perfect and then claim it should have been avoided" game is stale.

Matthews ended up gittin what, for him, is a "max offer," i.e. the maximum money, for the maximum years, with the maximum allowable frontload. What would YOU have offered him BEFORE he ever talked to anyone? $34 million over 5 years with "only" $8 million the first year, instead of $9 million? Either way it's max money, to be paid, sooner or later. If you were KOC you would have instantly offered him the max, even knowing you had the right to match IF he got such an offer, that it? Sure glad KOC is the GM, and not you.

If you would have offered him sumthin LESS than the max, who's to say KOC didn't make a similiar offer (not that I think what YOU would have done is of any particular interest or relevance, but...).

When the reports were that Matthews was offered substantially LESS than the max (25 million, not $34) YOU said that was too much to pay and that he should have been offered even less than that. Again, who says he wasn't? Whatever he was offered, he wouldn't take it. All we know is that he was offered less than the max. So your claim is NOW that he should have instantly been offered the max, that it?

I need the result, Hopper. Korver was there for 3 years 15 mil too. Yet we let him go also. If KOC knew Wes was so expensive based on intense negotiations with him, perhaps he should have extended offer to Korver. Yet Korver said he never got an offer at all from KOC. Now we (likely) lost them both. In addition to Booz. This is after dumping Maynor and Brew last year too. How can you be happy about losing all this talent and having nothing but a draft pick to replace it? I want to see some action. Forget Wes, and use money saved to get us Jefferson. Do something to improve the team. Losing 5 good players over last half a year is not going to make us better.

 

[David Stern]

How the hell can they frontload a contract like that? Do they have the cap room?? $9.2M?? that doesn't make any sense. can someone please explain (or link me to the post that did)?

It counts against the cap as the MLE (5.7 Million or whatever) because teams are allowed to give signing bonuses of up to 20%.

 

[David Stern]

okay, time for Plan C.

Deron takes year off relaxing er uh recovering from an 'injury'. Like San Antonio.
Trade AK, & memo for draft picks or players on rookie contracts.
Put Sloan out to pasture and let the Ty Corbin era begin.
Find a bunch of scrapy guys with feel good stories- sign them to one year contracts WITH TEAM OPTIONS ON THE 2 & 3 year.
Hope the ping pong balls bounce your way next summer (Can't miss three times in a row, can they?)

This isn't a bad idea honestly. I'll probably get criticized for not being a fan for wanting us to lose next season, but it helps us out in the long run. Plus, i'm David Stern anyways, so I'm obviously a Heat/Lakers fan.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

So where would matching Matthews put Jazz payroll at? Probably right up to the LT with more roster spots to fill?

We just unloaded Boozer and Korver. Last year, we unloaded Brewer, Harpring and Maynor. How are we at the tax threshold?

 

[Ben10]

We were 10 million over the Lux tax last year. Right now we are 11 million under the tax. Thats a 21 million dollar swing. But we are right at the cap and still need to add a few more guys to the roster.

 

[InGameStrategy]

It's not the money that I'm complaining about, it's the timid approach they've taken. Yes, I am a fairly big Booz AND Kyle homer and would have loved to see both of them back. Unfortunately, I knew from the start that wasn't likely and I understand that the hands of the organization were tied in terms of offering that money. It's the way they are going about the free agency procedure that bothers me. I have been pretty close to a fairly prominent source the last few weeks (not trying to pull an IJM here) and the things he's told me have disappointed.

On the night of free agency, there were 10 playoff teams and another 5 bottom feeders/on the brink teams that called Kyle. The Jazz were the last one. Their excuse for not getting a hold of him sooner? They "lost" his phone number. Please, that doesn't happen.

Utah already had Hayward. While the "lost his number" excuse is weak, calling him at all was a matter of courtesy.

I was told that the Jazz were working vigorously to keep Booz, but as soon as they heard the first offer they didn't want to get in a bidding war and essentially backed out.

Working at all to keep Booz--except for a S&T--was working too hard.

With Wesley, I feel like they could have been more proactive about contract talks with him rather than sitting around and waiting for somebody else to set his market value way too high. Now maybe he was already thinking big and that's why they ended talks with him, but I wish they would have been a little more aggressive.

It's understandable that they would let the market set the price.

That strategy was OK for CJ; $4 million per year is decent for a borderline-or-better starter.

Portland is being a rich-kid bully. Not cool. All Utah did wrong is not making his original contract longer. They should've seen more potential in him than a rookie minimum.

 

[InGameStrategy]

As one of Mathews biggest homers, at that price, see ya later. Thanks for working hard every day. THanks for playing great defense on a team desperate for someone willing/able to give their best every day. Alas, while strong, you are average in height and your ceiling is not much higher than reality. You got your 1800% raise. You can be replaced.

By whom?

 

[billyshelby]

By whom?

How hard do you really think it is to replace him? Per 48, Matthews is around 28th amongst shooting guards in every statistical category. He was 17th in steals. I'd say replacing him will be fairly easy, and at half the price.

 

[BENTLEY]

Depending on the extent of the hamstring injury - bring back Brewer. He's not without his faults, but neither is Wes. Better value for the money.

 

[Hopper]

All Utah did wrong is not making his original contract longer. They should've seen more potential in him than a rookie minimum.

Just stop, willya, S2? Matthews had, performance-wise (although perhaps not effort-wise) a less than stellar performance in the summer league. He was strictly cheap insurance when the Jazz took him on. You, in effect, seem to be claiming that they "should have known" at training camp, that he was a better player than Brewer and decided to instantly ship Brewer off while signing Matthews for a longer term on the cheap.

For you, I guess it's convenient and satisfying that YOUR hindsight is 20/20, and that it allows you to mislead the credulous with a false appearance of foresight into believing that you have more grounds for claiming your own superiority as a GM over KOC. But it's simply a game for suckers, and you're not fooling anyone else. But you are, in the process, more or less slandering the Jazz management. But, then again, I guess that's all you're really here for to begin with, eh?

 

[Jeditiger]

I hope we sweep Portland again.

 

[Borat]

Btw, take a look at this: https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/49907340-87/jazz-matthews-offer-williams.html.csp

The Jazz were bracing for a five-year, $25 million offer earlier Saturday as Young reported being close to a deal with Portland.

Does this sound like KOC has been actively negotiating with Wes or perhaps like someone who told him to go find another offer, like Siler reported? And if we thought 25 mil offer sheet was coming, why not talk to Wes and try to agree to similar deal, but without toxic first year. Looks like KOC was completely out of the loop on this whole thing, doesn't it?

 

[Shaggy]

So if I'm reading this right the offer stands as 5 year 32.7 mil with the first year payment at 9.2 mil and the last year set at 7.5 mil?

1st = 9.2
2nd = 5.3
3rd = 5.3
4th = 5.3
5th = 7.5

1st year cap = 5.7
2nd year cap =6.0
3rd year cap =6.5
4th year cap = 7.0
5th year cap = 7.5

I like Matthews but I'm starting to question the total amount of the contract. The Jazz FO will be damned if they do, damned if they don't. I really hate saying this but I think we have to let him go. ugh

 

[InGameStrategy]

Did you consider CJ our 'starting' 3 when AK was backing him up a year ago? Wes started because he was the best option to start with the players we had. If the Jazz were trying to start the best 5 guys on their roster, AK would have been in there, and the only argument would have been Miles/Matthews for the 2. In my book, that's not a 'starter.' In fact, the ideal situation would have been to find somebody better than Matthews and have Matthews back that guy up. As a backup at a reasonable contract, I LOVE Matthews.

Unless the Jazz had a better SF than AK, then AK was slotted for SF (or maybe even PF) before SG. Kiri played nearly no time at the 2, last year. Matthews and KK played most of his time at the 2; CJ at the 3. And Matthews played more than Miles and Korver in both the regular season and the playoffs. Doesn't sound like a clear-cut backup to me. I don't trust Matthews' or Miles' defense yet, nor their shooting, but I see more upside in Matthews as a upcoming 2nd-year player than Miles as an upcoming sixth-year player, even though CJ is a bit younger in overall age.

Some have argued that SG and SF are interchangeable in the Jazz system, but I disagree on offense.
https://www.82games.com/0910/09UTA10.HTM#bypos

 

[YB85]

Btw, take a look at this: https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/49907340-87/jazz-matthews-offer-williams.html.csp


Does this sound like KOC has been actively negotiating with Wes or perhaps like someone who told him to go find another offer, like Siler reported? And if we thought 25 mil offer sheet was coming, why not talk to Wes and try to agree to similar deal, but without toxic first year. Looks like KOC was completely out of the loop on this whole thing, doesn't it?

Why should the Jazz, or any team, set the market for their own restricted free agents unless that player is a franchise guy? Let them go get their money, and if the money is fair, match. If not, good luck to you and congratulations on your new money and new team. Don't bid against yourself. I have no problem with the way the Jazz handled Matthews' negotiations. Or Miles or Millsap's.