Should the Jazz "Unleash" Collin Sexton?

[default]

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah, really proof you havent read the thread of what I posted because Sexton said he wants to be coached hard and likes the way Hardy has helped him.

No I read that. I wasn't disputing if hardy coached sexton hard or if it was good for him or if he liked it. That wasn't the discussion.

The discussion was "why was sexton being held back" and "will sexton continue to be held back going forward"

You can coach someone hard and play them 40 minutes per game.

But it sounds like your answer to these questions are: he was held back due to hard coaching by hardy. And: hardy won't need to coach him so hard in the future due to improvement that sexton has made.

I have to assume those are your answers to the questions since you won't actually answer the questions yourself. Hopefully I answered correctly for you.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Jazz trade John Collins for Andrew Wiggins

Jazz trade Jordan Clarkson and #10 pick for Jonathan Isaacs.

Absolutely massive boost to the Jazz's defense.

Trade actually saves the Jazz 1.5 million dollars when you factor in the salary for the 10th overall pick. Would still have money to go out and add a rotation piece.

Starting lineup:

Collin Sexton
Andrew Wiggins
Taylor Hendricks
Lauri Markkanen
Jonathan Isaacs

Bench:
Keyonte George
Kris Dunn
Brice Sensabaugh
Walker Kessler
Kenny Lofton Jr

Deep Bench:
Johnny Juzang
Darius Bazley
Pick #29
Pick #32
UFA

2-Way Contracts:
Jason Preston
TBD
TBD

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Jazz trade John Collins for Andrew Wiggins

Jazz trade Jordan Clarkson and #10 pick for Jonathan Isaacs.

Absolutely massive boost to the Jazz's defense.

Trade actually saves the Jazz 1.5 million dollars when you factor in the salary for the 10th overall pick. Would still have money to go out and add a rotation piece.

Starting lineup:

Collin Sexton
Andrew Wiggins
Taylor Hendricks
Lauri Markkanen
Jonathan Isaacs

Bench:
Keyonte George
Kris Dunn
Brice Sensabaugh
Walker Kessler
Kenny Lofton Jr

Deep Bench:
Johnny Juzang
Darius Bazley
Pick #29
Pick #32
UFA

2-Way Contracts:
Jason Preston
TBD
TBD

Wiggins was much better in the second half of the season than the first half. I think that points to his regression being more likely due to coming back from injury vs getting paid and not caring. I would much rather pay him than Collins.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Wiggins was much better in the second half of the season than the first half. I think that points to his regression being more likely due to coming back from injury vs getting paid and not caring. I would much rather pay him than Collins.

The scoop on Wiggins is that there was some pretty tragic thing that happened in his personal life that took him away from the game.

And I continue to say that Draymond Green is probably just insufferable to play with.

 

[fishonjazz]

Jazz trade John Collins for Andrew Wiggins

Jazz trade Jordan Clarkson and #10 pick for Jonathan Isaacs.

Absolutely massive boost to the Jazz's defense.

Trade actually saves the Jazz 1.5 million dollars when you factor in the salary for the 10th overall pick. Would still have money to go out and add a rotation piece.

Starting lineup:

Collin Sexton
Andrew Wiggins
Taylor Hendricks
Lauri Markkanen
Jonathan Isaacs

Bench:
Keyonte George
Kris Dunn
Brice Sensabaugh
Walker Kessler
Kenny Lofton Jr

Deep Bench:
Johnny Juzang
Darius Bazley
Pick #29
Pick #32
UFA

2-Way Contracts:
Jason Preston
TBD
TBD

That's a playoff roster. I like it

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[sip]

He started once JC got hurt... then as a starter was getting 28 minutes a game, when it was clear he deserved more. I don't think the relationship is strained but its just weird how minutes were managed. It may have been a JC thing so he gets a little slack but its also partly org's messaging around Collin that feeds into this potential lack of belief for some reason.

Yep. Colin was forced into the starting lineup because Clarkson and Key were injured and he played too well for Hardy to justify sending him back to the bench without extreme backlash. At the same time he still went out of his way to limit his minutes while giving Clarkson the ultimate leash. I would be interested to hear what his reasoning was between the 2.

 

[sip]

Jazz trade John Collins for Andrew Wiggins

Jazz trade Jordan Clarkson and #10 pick for Jonathan Isaacs.

Absolutely massive boost to the Jazz's defense.

Trade actually saves the Jazz 1.5 million dollars when you factor in the salary for the 10th overall pick. Would still have money to go out and add a rotation piece.

Starting lineup:

Collin Sexton
Andrew Wiggins
Taylor Hendricks
Lauri Markkanen
Jonathan Isaacs

Bench:
Keyonte George
Kris Dunn
Brice Sensabaugh
Walker Kessler
Kenny Lofton Jr

Deep Bench:
Johnny Juzang
Darius Bazley
Pick #29
Pick #32
UFA

2-Way Contracts:
Jason Preston
TBD
TBD

I'm fine with Collins for Wiggins but Isaac isn't worth even close to the 10th pick. For me that roster is still just borderline play in team in the west.

 

[sip]

That's a playoff roster. I like it

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I'm not so sure it is playoff roster and Isaac for the 10th pick is really rough. Odds are he still misses quite a few games and if he stays healthy he is an unrestricted free agent and you have to pay up for him and that injury history. At this point I don't think that is a risk worth taking.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm fine with Collins for Wiggins but Isaac isn't worth even close to the 10th pick. For me that roster is still just borderline play in team in the west.

The 10th pick is likely a very mediocre player this year. He's worth then some it's kind of a lowball offer.

 

[sip]

The 10th pick is likely a very mediocre player this year. He's worth then some it's kind of a lowball offer.

The 10th pick for Isaac is not a low ball offer. Go to a magic message board with that offer and they jump on it. His value isn't even close to the 10th pick with his injury history and pending free agency. Also nice to see that you have already written off the 10th pick in this draft as a likely mediocre player. I'm looking at guys like Cody Williams, Holland, Knecht, Carter, Dillingham, Salaun, Collier and Topic and am pretty excited about the chance to draft one of them.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The 10th pick for Isaac is not a low ball offer. Go to a magic message board with that offer and they jump on it. His value isn't even close to the 10th pick with his injury history and pending free agency.

Well message board are kind of full of morons such as yourself you highly overrate individual draft picks. Doesnt really mean anything. JI is a high level impact player and one that potentially fits the team great and he fits Utah culturally (whether any of us like that or not).

 

[sip]

Well message board are kind of full of morons such as yourself you highly overrate individual draft picks. Doesnt really mean anything. JI is a high level impact player and one that potentially fits the team great and he fits Utah culturally (whether any of us like that or not).

You just can't help yourself acting like an *******. Give it a rest. As far as Isaac goes he has been really solid when healthy but that has been a rarity. He may be one of those guys that is incapable of playing more than 15 to 20 minutes a game and even then he may consistently breakdown.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You just can't help yourself acting like an *******. Give it a rest. As far as Isaac goes he has been really solid when healthy but that has been a rarity. He may be one of those guys that is incapable of playing more than 15 to 20 minutes a game and even then he may consistently breakdown.

Really solid doesn't begin to describe his impact. He had a 3.8 BPM. This is why I don't take your analysis seriously because you aren't a serious person. You're a draft fantasizer

There is risk there of course. Never acted like there wasn't. Got to risk it for the biscuit not just fantasize about rookie contract potential when YOU HAVE A BILLION OTHER PICKS THE NEXT FEW YEARS

 

[gomretat]

I have some good news for you. He always does.

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We can agree to disagree on that one. Sometimes he does, sometimes he just creates a very static offense that becomes its own version of ISO ball. Part of my issue is that I have no use for ISO ball.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We can agree to disagree on that one. Sometimes he does, sometimes he just creates a very static offense that becomes its own version of ISO ball. Part of my issue is that I have no use for ISO ball.

I dont completely disagree with you, but I think the narrative on Sexton does impact how we view his playmaking. He was objectively a pretty good passer this season. He's not going to hit every pass and that's not realistic to expect out of any player who isnt on the "point god" level. You give Sexton a spaced floor and he can make good reads and I think his PNR play w/ different tempos improved this year. Him and Collins had some nice chemistry building.

 

[fishonjazz]

We can agree to disagree on that one. Sometimes he does, sometimes he just creates a very static offense that becomes its own version of ISO ball. Part of my issue is that I have no use for ISO ball.

You said "he better produce at a high level"
I said he always does. Even when he creates a very static office that becomes it's own version of ISO ball he still always produces at a high level. You might not enjoy watching that kind of production but it's still high level production.
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[sip]

Really solid doesn't begin to describe his impact. He had a 3.8 BPM. This is why I don't take your analysis seriously because you aren't a serious person. You're a draft fantasizer

There is risk there of course. Never acted like there wasn't. Got to risk it for the biscuit not just fantasize about rookie contract potential when YOU HAVE A BILLION OTHER PICKS THE NEXT FEW YEARS

You are in la la land. Isaac isn't worth the 10th pick. It's a good thing management doesn't think like you or we would have traded Sexton and a 1st for Brogdon last offseason like you wanted.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You are in la la land. Isaac isn't worth the 10th pick. It's a good thing management doesn't think like you or we would have traded Sexton and a 1st for Brogdon last offseason like you wanted.

It's already been reported they are looking at trading 10 for a win now player. It's a nice buy low opportunity

 

[gomretat]

I dont completely disagree with you, but I think the narrative on Sexton does impact how we view his playmaking. He was objectively a pretty good passer this season. He's not going to hit every pass and that's not realistic to expect out of any player who isnt on the "point god" level. You give Sexton a spaced floor and he can make good reads and I think his PNR play w/ different tempos improved this year. Him and Collins had some nice chemistry building.

Making not passes a few times a game does not compensate for the static offense he creates, IMO. Individual efficiency is not the measure for a good PG.