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God and Country

The Idiotic Minivan K was talking about the sequel.

Not sure if the movie (if that's what it was) is anything like the book, but in the second book a little boy, Tip, travels around the lands of Oz and meets a few known and a few new characters.

Mild spoilers for a 120 year old book ahead

Anyway, around Tip's teenage years they begin identifying as a woman and eventually become Princess Ozma, the ruler of Oz.
 
LogGrad98 said:
What's really dumb about all this is that things like statues of the 10 commandments show just how selective and arbitrary Christianity is. Why don't they have a statue of the rules for owning slaves from the old testament? Selective belief in arbitrary "rules" is ludicrous. And foisting it all on everyone regardless of their beliefs is nothing short of tyrannical. But it's a good thing they preach tolerance, as long as it's about tolerating the right people, I guess.
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Have you ever heard “biblical view” Christians who take the Old Testament literally ever preach that debts should be forgiven every 7 years? Hmmm. Wonder why?

I know I’m just a weird LDS person but I’ve always found christians, especially evangelical Christians, to be odd with all of the focus on the Old Testament. Why focus on the older texts geared towards Israel when CHRIST THE FOUNDER OF CHRISTIANITY said a ton of good things in the Sermon on the Mount that largely go ignored by “biblical view Christians?” In fact, much of the modern-day policy and conduct of American Christianity is refuted by Christ in that sermon (not to mention countless times In the NT). “Turn the other cheek? What a cuck!” To me it just shows that “Biblical View” Christians are mostly using Christianity as a shield to promote their authoritarian, xenophobic, misogynistic, and backwards views.

I believe one of the Trumps laid bare what many “Christians” believe today. Sacrifice the spiritual kingdom of heaven for the worldly kingdom of power, politics, and drinking liberal tears. Christ is merely a chump to these people, while Trump is their champ

IMG_5945.png

www.theatlantic.com

The Gospel of Donald Trump Jr.

The former president’s son told a crowd that the teachings of Jesus have “gotten us nothing.”
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
Btw, I really love the LDS book “Jesus the Christ.” Anyone else have suggestions of the similar subject? It doesn’t have to be by an LDS author.
 
As many scholars of authoritarianism have written about lately, I found this article from Greg Sargent of the New Republic to be enlightening. Authoritarians, like Trump, like to test the limits on the public of their extremism. We’ve seen how Trump gradually degrades those around him until they either leave his administration or conform. In 2015, he was a joke within the GOP and now he commands it. We’ve seen him demean our institutions until they conform to his wishes. He’s grooming his followers to reject the outcomes of the election this fall unless he wins and is getting them used to the idea of using violence to achieve retribution on his perceived enemies.

This is not how democratic leaders are supposed to sound and act. The rhetoric is eerily similar to Hitler, Mussolini, and Putin. They too used/use crude vulgar and inflammatory rhetoric to fire up their bases and get the public used to the idea of violence.

Terrific article here


He’ll get rid of all you ****ing liberals. You liberals are gone when he ****ing wins. You ****ing ******* liberals are done. Uncle Donnie’s gonna take this election—landslide. Landslide, you ****ing half a *******. Landslide. Get the **** out of here, you scumbag.
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By posting this video, Trump appears to be endorsing that sentiment about not only Scarborough but about liberals generally.Shouldn’t that be pretty big news in and of itself?
Some will give Trump the benefit of the doubt. Surely Trump thought the video was funny. Surely he only intended his MSNBC nemesis as the target. Surely calling a person or group “done” is just a figure of speech. And Scarborough doesn’t appear to feel threatened by the guy in the video. He was just a crank, right?
But the news here isn’t this one man’s anger at Scarborough, it’s that Trump elevated it. And moments like these require context: This one should be placed alongside Trump’s other recent threats, such as his vow that news organizations will be “thoroughly scrutinized” if he wins, his promise to persecute his “vermin”-like political foes, and his threat to prosecute a range of enemies without cause.

Hitler too tested the limits of his inflammatory rhetoric and adjusted when his remarks became too offensive. Gradually however, people became numb to his rhetoric until it became just natural to hear him describe fellow human being as “vermin” or to talk about “attacking liberals to save Germany.” Just like trump is currently doing.

Importantly, this vow is not merely rhetorical. As CNN’s Oliver Darcy shows, Trump’s threat to “investigate” the media exists in the form of a concrete program, with ideas about prosecuting media figures now discussed openly by Trump loyalists who are expected to serve in a second Trump administration. This talk has taken a truly dangerous turn.

This is what Hitler did and what Putin and Orban have currently done. They’ve all worked to intimidate and crush independent media. They either “work the refs” by calling them biased, which moves the Overton window to their direction as media outlets overcompensate to overcome the bias argument or come up with trumped up charges which force the media to either conform or be sold to cronies. This is how independent media in democracies die. And it’s already happening here. Sinclair owns many local news outlets already. Rupert Murdoch already attempted to buy CNN. Giving Trump back the powers of the White House will expedite this process, especially since he already owns the Supreme Court.

This is a good article about threats to our media from Brian Stelter.


, I suggest reading this book. It tells how many Germans working in occupation forces weren’t born killers. But through consumption of inflammatory rhetoric, ambition to rise through ranks for better employment, and peer pressure, they became monsters. This book is available in library systems in utah county and salt lake County. Highly recommend. As usual, I bring the receipts. I don’t just blow out of my *** like some trump ball washers do.



Lastly, one cannot read this book about the Holocaust denier and not see the comparisons to Trump world and some of our posters here. The way he spins, denies, and gaslights people living in reality is all familiar to those of us who have been paying attention to politics these last few years. The forces of authoritarianism assault our very sense of reality. They know that they don’t have facts. Which is why they rely on gaslighting you. Their hope is that you give up in trying to find truth from fiction. They hope that if you become cynical and just give up and give in to the strongman to take care of everything, that the authoritarian wins. This is what trumpers want to do to you. They want to exhaust you. Prepare now

 
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Red said:
Hmmm….


View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1805246153300017502
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In the past, when certain states forced prayers and scriptures onto public school students, there were divisions within Christian religions that actually led to protest. It sure would be interesting here in Utah if children were forced to recite catholic prayers or read from catholic bibles. Methinks that suddenly the population would be demanding separation of church and state if that happened. Everyone thinks their side will be in charge so to hell with laws and rules until they find out they’re not in charge. Then suddenly the laws and rules matter again.

Let’s remember, the same corruption that has infected conservative justices could happen to liberal justices. How would conservatives feel during Biden’s 2nd term to see Thomas and Alito replaced with justices Bowman and AOC? And paid handsomely to legislate from the bench to stick it to conservatives? Suddenly, I think we’d see a movement from the right to change the court. Funny how that works.
 
The Thriller said:
In the past, when certain states forced prayers and scriptures onto public school students, there were divisions within Christian religions that actually led to protest. It sure would be interesting here in Utah if children were forced to recite catholic prayers or read from catholic bibles. Methinks that suddenly the population would be demanding separation of church and state if that happened. Everyone thinks their side will be in charge so to hell with laws and rules until they find out they’re not in charge. Then suddenly the laws and rules matter again.

Let’s remember, the same corruption that has infected conservative justices could happen to liberal justices. How would conservatives feel during Biden’s 2nd term to see Thomas and Alito replaced with justices Bowman and AOC? And paid handsomely to legislate from the bench to stick it to conservatives? Suddenly, I think we’d see a movement from the right to change the court. Funny how that works.
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Yet another knock on religion in general being bad for society as a whole. Drives too much artificial tribalism.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yet another knock on religion in general being bad for society as a whole. Drives too much artificial tribalism.
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Absolutely.

The older I get the more I see organized religion being a major factor in dividing society. Just a small example, how many times on my mission in Brazil did I tell folks who were born into Catholicism that our religion was the one true one? Completely crapping on their previously held religious beliefs? How many people did we baptize into our religion that might’ve impacted (negatively) their relationships with friends and family? I guess the counter argument is that if you truly believe that our lds baptizing saves people from eternal damnation that any amount of social destruction was worth it. But as I get older I’m not sure it is. God can’t see that a catholic person who is leading a good productive life is a soul worth saving if they’re not baptized into our church?

Religion can be a great place to find community. But the older I get I think that religion needs to be as inclusive as possible. Which very much is at odds with the orthodox exclusive religion I was born into and practice today. Honestly, a lot of people my age (approaching middle age) are a lot less orthodox than our parents and grandparents. And a lot has to do with seeing the detrimental effects exclusive religion has on our society. We don’t like it. I for one am done excluding friends and family because they’re gay, drink, or engaged in pre-marital sex. We’re tired of the division.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yet another knock on religion in general being bad for society as a whole. Drives too much artificial tribalism.
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Um wut?

Doubling the rate of religious attendance raises household income by 9.1 percent, decreases welfare participation by 16 percent from baseline rates, decreases the odds of being divorced by 4 percent , and increases the odds of being married by 4.4 percent.
www.nber.org

Is Religion Good for You?

www.nber.org www.nber.org

The overwhelming majority of research on this topic has found religion to be positively correlated with hope, well-being/happiness, optimism, meaning and purpose, self esteem, and sense of control. Those active in religion have a lower rate of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and suicide.

Religion, Spirituality, and Health: The Research and Clinical Implications - PMC

This paper provides a concise but comprehensive review of research on religion/spirituality (R/S) and both mental health and physical health. It is based on a systematic review of original data-based quantitative research published in peer-reviewed ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The tribalism you refer to is building community and social bonds. Humans are social animals and that sort of thing is demonstrably good for us.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Um wut?

Doubling the rate of religious attendance raises household income by 9.1 percent, decreases welfare participation by 16 percent from baseline rates, decreases the odds of being divorced by 4 percent , and increases the odds of being married by 4.4 percent.
www.nber.org

Is Religion Good for You?

www.nber.org www.nber.org

The overwhelming majority of research on this topic has found religion to be positively correlated with hope, well-being/happiness, optimism, meaning and purpose, self esteem, and sense of control. Those active in religion have a lower rate of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and suicide.

Religion, Spirituality, and Health: The Research and Clinical Implications - PMC

This paper provides a concise but comprehensive review of research on religion/spirituality (R/S) and both mental health and physical health. It is based on a systematic review of original data-based quantitative research published in peer-reviewed ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The tribalism you refer to is building community and social bonds. Humans are social animals and that sort of thing is demonstrably good for us.
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You don't know what tribalism is, do you.
 
TheStormofWar said:
You don't know what tribalism is, do you.
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I know what the research say about the health benefits of religious involvement. If some don't want that path for themselves that's fine. We have the freedom to choose, and we are the sum of those choices. Ask Log how his health is.
 
TheStormofWar said:
You are responding to his entire post. You disproved nothing on why he said religion is bad. You ran off on some weird tangent to prove why an imaginary best friend is awesome. Which hey, good for you, but it does not disprove his point.
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Cause has Effect because of Rationale. I don't need to address his Rationale because his claimed Effect, which he clearly pulled from his but whole, is provably wrong. What I provided was proof in the form of about 120 scientific studies from reputable sources that Log was spouting nonsense. The evidence is so overwhelming that I'm not worried you, he, or anyone else can refute it. Lame attempts at nitpicking semantics is all you got. Religion is not bad for society as a whole.
 
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