Kamala Harris for Pres

[Rubashov]

Most of your top 7 points are republican talking points that don't stand up to scrutiny. The tax cuts, for example, did more to increase our debt than any other president, as the lion's share of the money given back went to large corporations and wealthy individuals, with nominal impact on the middle class and no to border-negative impact on true low-income households. See context matters. Sound bites don't cut it.

And if he isn't a nazi what is with his nazi language in full use on the right?

As far as middle east peace, sure looks like smoke and mirrors to me.

Trump's Mideast deals tout 'peace' where there was never war

JERUSALEM (AP) — For the first time in more than a quarter-century, a U.S. president will host a signing ceremony between Israelis and Arabs at the White House, billing it as an "historic breakthrough" in a region long known for its stubborn conflicts.

apnews.com

We can obviously go at this all day, so I will suffice to say, good thing you are not voting for an active domestic terrorist for president. Glad you have reasoned it out, and are skipping over his numerous (onerous and highly questionable) "accomplishments" to place a sane vote.

Of course you do pick the one guy with a brain worm.

Always gotta have the talking points....

Interesting way he's numbered them tho...

I mean just cause you use neo-fascist language and defend the actions of white supremacists doesn't make you a Nazi. A collaborator for sure, a moral coward as well, its cynical politics at its best at its worst its acceptance of their world view, my feeling Trump is somewhere in between. he's also a fairly disgusting human being but none of this is new. Trump will deliver peace in the middle east? You've gotta be ****ing kidding. He'll also heal lepers and give complimentary hand jobs on the house at Trump casinos.

 

[Sardines]

Just as much as Vance, like I said yesterday…

Vance hasn't served in the White House as VP for nearly 4 years. That's basically the ultimate prep for becoming President, as we've seen many VPs go on to become President.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Just as much as Vance, like I said yesterday…

Being a Trump voter must cause permanent brain damage....

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Vance hasn't served in the White House as VP for nearly 4 years. That's basically the ultimate prep for becoming President, as we've seen many VPs go on to become President.

He hasnt even been a Senator for 4 years or held an elected position of power like Kamala did as a DA/AG of a major city for over a decade. Just impossible to have actual discussions with Trump people when basic facts are ignored.

 

[Bucknutz]

Most of your top 7 points are republican talking points that don't stand up to scrutiny. The tax cuts, for example, did more to increase our debt than any other president, as the lion's share of the money given back went to large corporations and wealthy individuals, with nominal impact on the middle class and no to border-negative impact on true low-income households. See context matters. Sound bites don't cut it.

You want to debate tax cuts? I’m not wealthy or have a large corporation.

Let’s go over how it has helped my small business.

Basic numbers:
$10ish mill in revenue
$3ish mil in taxable

14% in extra take home is roughly $400k a year.

Did we pocket the extra $400k? Nope, we hired 3 developers and went on a technology blitz and it is still continuing, with an additional engineer this year.

Biden’s proposal or let the tax cuts expire, there goes my half or whole tech side of my business.

You don’t care about the debt but I do care about the people I work with. They are the highest paid reps and techs in the industry by 3x and have profit sharing. Not every company is greedy, lots are individuals or partners that this does hurt.

 

[fishonjazz]

Honest question to all the people who will be voting for Kamala:

Why do you plan to vote for Kamala without mentioning Trump, gender or race?

I'm only voting for her, or anyone because of trump.

Remove trump and the most likely outcome for me is that go back to not voting anymore. After all, my vote literally doesn't matter. I would like to be part of trump losing the popular vote though. Even though it doesn't matter


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[Bucknutz]

He hasnt even been a Senator for 4 years or held an elected position of power like Kamala did as a DA/AG of a major city for over a decade. Just impossible to have actual discussions with Trump people when basic facts are ignored.

Wow, how long was Kamala a Senator for? What experience does a DA/AG have to do with governing? Basic Facts…

Again, Not a Trump person, just a realist.

You obviously don't understand my argument.

I’ll break it down to you.
1. Important opportunity for the Democrats right now
2. Selecting the worst candidate on the left
3. I don’t believe the never Trump vote has enough power this cycle
4. Kamala will have a harder time with Independents.

I dont want to hear you bitch when there is a good change that Trump will be the president with her as the Democrat nominee.

I’m not going to bitch if she wins. Because again, it really doesn’t bother who the president is.

 

[fishonjazz]

Thanks @Bucknutz for sticking around and providing your point of view in these discussions. Thanks for asking these types of questions.

Keep being you.

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[LogGrad98]

You want to debate tax cuts? I’m not wealthy or have a large corporation.

Let’s go over how it has helped my small business.

Basic numbers:
$10ish mill in revenue
$3ish mil in taxable

14% in extra take home is roughly $400k a year.

Did we pocket the extra $400k? Nope, we hired 3 developers and went on a technology blitz and it is still continuing, with an additional engineer this year.

Biden’s proposal or let the tax cuts expire, there goes my half or whole tech side of my business.

You don’t care about the debt but I do care about the people I work with. They are the highest paid reps and techs in the industry by 3x and have profit sharing. Not every company is greedy, lots are individuals or partners that this does hurt.

I am happy for you. It is nebulous, so don't get used to it. These kinds of tax shenanigans are standard fare in politics, so expect them to expire or be transmogrified in some way. And those numbers put you firmly in the top 20% of "small businesses", probably just a smaller employee count keeps it from being bigger business. But that is the way they were designed, the sliding scale has the large end at the top, and the tiny to no end at the bottom. My family is in the 150-250 income range, and we didn't see much in terms of tax break at that point, as the breaks were aimed at businesses and most businesses just pocketed the difference, hence record profits with still near-stagnant wage growth nationwide. So overall, it doesn't hold water. But I am happy for you and your upper-upper-middle-class family in your gain. You are the fringe of what he targeted, and so it appears to have hit its mark for the most part.

The company I was working for at the time boasted record profit margins, announced it to shareholders, touted it everywhere they could...then promptly turned around and cancelled all bonuses (except executives, they needed to be rewarded for that extra profit of course) due to "unexpected costs", that didn't seem to impact that huge profit margin much. And that is the way it was for most earners in the country. So, not offense, but your view is a bit skewed in relation to what the actual "middle class" experiences.

 

[LogGrad98]

Wow, how long was Kamala a Senator for? What experience does a DA/AG have to do with governing? Basic Facts…

Again, Not a Trump person, just a realist.

You obviously don't understand my argument.

I’ll break it down to you.
1. Important opportunity for the Democrats right now
2. Selecting the worst candidate on the left
3. I don’t believe the never Trump vote has enough power this cycle
4. Kamala will have a harder time with Independents.

I dont want to hear you bitch when there is a good change that Trump will be the president with her as the Democrat nominee.

I’m not going to bitch if she wins. Because again, it really doesn’t bother who the president is.

I agree with this assessment for the most part. She is among the weakest candidates the left could put forth. And not just because of her record, but yes specifically because of her skin color and her gender. Someone has to get it out there, that it is a not an insubstantial block of voters that swallowed their "conservatives-or-die" cards to vote against Trump last election cycle. Many of them are on the fence, or maybe just went back into the MAGA fold. And now we present them with a candidate they "can't" vote for. And I guarantee you that the majority of the voters in the country, meaning likely in the 80 percent range, have no idea what her platform is or what she thinks about immigration or how many abortion clinics she visited. They largely see 3 things: 1) D or R on her registration card, followed, and we have to admit it, not too distantly by 2) race and 3) gender. That's it. The vast majority make up their minds based on the D or R alone. But that is likely only 80-85% of the voting public. Meaning that 40-43% splits leaves a healthy margin in the middle to make the deciding votes. And more than a few of them will vote AGAINST #2 and 3 above before they vote against their own D or R. So many will run back to Trump on that alone. Add to it the fact that she is not very charismatic (another factor more important than political experience, just ask Nixon how it was under those hot lights in that debate with young and handsomely charismatic JFK), and she hasn't been very public, means that they are facing a supremely uphill battle. I hope to be wrong and to see the #neverTrump movement get the vote out, but I am not holding my breath for it either.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Wow, how long was Kamala a Senator for? What experience does a DA/AG have to do with governing? Basic Facts…

Again, Not a Trump person, just a realist.

You obviously don't understand my argument.

I’ll break it down to you.
1. Important opportunity for the Democrats right now
2. Selecting the worst candidate on the left
3. I don’t believe the never Trump vote has enough power this cycle
4. Kamala will have a harder time with Independents.

I dont want to hear you bitch when there is a good change that Trump will be the president with her as the Democrat nominee.

I’m not going to bitch if she wins. Because again, it really doesn’t bother who the president is.

The fact is she has more experience point blank period. If you want to actually discuss stuff, stand on facts. She has twice as much governing experience and she has over a decade in an elected position of power. It might not have direct carryover to being the President, but what does? At the end of the day it's more than what JD has and it was more than what Trump had when he won. Go get ****ed along with Steak and Bentley if you are going to be this stupid. You are well within your right to not find her unappealing or w/e, but the experience angle is just you being full of ****

 

[LogGrad98]

Thanks @Bucknutz for sticking around and providing your point of view in these discussions. Thanks for asking these types of questions.

Keep being you.

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This.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm only voting for her, or anyone because of trump.

Remove trump and the most likely outcome for me is that go back to not voting anymore. After all, my vote literally doesn't matter. I would like to be part of trump losing the popular vote though. Even though it doesn't matter


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This in spades. Especially in Utahr. No vote matters as long as the biggest block of voters have that R in barcode form tattooed on their foreheads. You know, the sign of the beast and all.

 

[Safetydan]

You want to debate tax cuts? I’m not wealthy or have a large corporation.

Let’s go over how it has helped my small business.

Basic numbers:
$10ish mill in revenue
$3ish mil in taxable

14% in extra take home is roughly $400k a year.

Did we pocket the extra $400k? Nope, we hired 3 developers and went on a technology blitz and it is still continuing, with an additional engineer this year.

Biden’s proposal or let the tax cuts expire, there goes my half or whole tech side of my business.

You don’t care about the debt but I do care about the people I work with. They are the highest paid reps and techs in the industry by 3x and have profit sharing. Not every company is greedy, lots are individuals or partners that this does hurt.

Any amount of revenue you put back into your business shouldn't be taxed. If you hire and pay your people, re-invest in R&D, etc. you don't pay taxes on that amount. Taxes should only cut into net-income after expenses (EBIT). ???

Edit: I'm an accountant, I'm not saying you're wrong with your numbers. I'm just going off of the information in your post. I will say that business owners love to pretend that corporate taxes hurt their ability to hire and pay employees when in reality due to the order in which things are calculated, the taxes you end up paying does not affect the number of employees you're able to hire and pay. More employees equals less tax bill, (but also less net income) If anything due to the opportunity cost that comes with higher percentages of corporate tax. owners are incentivized to re-invest into their business.

Trumps Tax cuts for the working class are scheduled to expire (and they're ****ing miniscule comparatively), the tax cuts for the rich are permanent. That's kinda ****ed.

Workers, the vast majority of americans, don't need tax cuts, they need more income.

 

[Rubashov]

Any amount of revenue you put back into your business is not taxed. If you pay your people, re-invest in R&D you don't pay taxes on that amount. Taxes only cuts into net-income after expenses. ???

Edit: I'm an accountant, I'm not saying you're wrong with your numbers. I'm just going off of the information in your post. I will say that business owners love to pretend that corporate taxes hurt their ability to hire and pay employees when in reality due to the order in which things are calculated, the taxes you pay has nothing to do with the employees you're able to hire and pay.

Trumps Tax cuts for the working class are scheduled to expire (and they're ****ing miniscule comparatively), the tax cuts for the rich are permanent. That's kinda ****ed.

Workers, the vast majority of americans, don't need tax cuts, they need more income.

Rich people paying tax which could be spent on services would probably help working people too.

If you want to talk about corporate tax let's look at things this way, i own two small business and pay a fair amount of tax. Now large corporations who are my competitors can afford tax lawyers and so on and pay next to no tax. Businesses should be taxed on turnover.

 

[Safetydan]

Rich people paying tax which could be spent on services would probably help working people too.

If you want to talk about corporate tax let's look at things this way, i own two small business and pay a fair amount of tax. Now large corporations who are my competitors can afford tax lawyers and so on and pay next to no tax. Businesses should be taxed on turnover.

Sounds like Bucknutz needs a CPA

 

[Safetydan]

This in spades. Especially in Utahr. No vote matters as long as the biggest block of voters have that R in barcode form tattooed on their foreheads. You know, the sign of the beast and all.

What do you think Utah would look like if we got 100% turnout. Or, even better, Texas or Florida.

 

[LogGrad98]

Any amount of revenue you put back into your business is not taxed. If you pay your people, re-invest in R&D you don't pay taxes on that amount. Taxes only cuts into net-income after expenses. ???

Edit: I'm an accountant, I'm not saying you're wrong with your numbers. I'm just going off of the information in your post. I will say that business owners love to pretend that corporate taxes hurt their ability to hire and pay employees when in reality due to the order in which things are calculated, the taxes you end up paying does not affect the number of employees you're able to hire and pay. More employees equals less tax bill, (but also less net income) If anything due to the opportunity cost that comes with higher percentages of corporate tax. owners are incentivized to re-invest into their business.

Trumps Tax cuts for the working class are scheduled to expire (and they're ****ing miniscule comparatively), the tax cuts for the rich are permanent. That's kinda ****ed.

Workers, the vast majority of americans, don't need tax cuts, they need more income.

This.

We really need tax INCREASES to pay for all the **** we are borrowing to pay for now. These tax cuts appease the rich, sound nice to the middle and lower class (why I will never know since a SUBSTANTIAL portion of them pay very minimal or no taxes at all, or get rebates, child tax credit, for example), and then cause us to borrow incessantly. This affects other things like tariffs (deals with countries we have to borrow from), and inflation. It might seem like it is meaningless but it's not. And of course the ever-present threat of destroying the only social safety net we have for our seniors in social security payments, which have been 20 years from running out (or more appropriately, being re-allocated to pork-barrel projects to benefit the wealthy) for going into 5 decades now. We desperately need to RAISE corporate taxes and capital gains and institutes taxes on wealthy accumulation so we can provide the needed safety nets that other developed nations have already figured out, like the Scandinavian countries, Germany, etc.. Of course we are a hair's breadth from being a full-on plutocracy especially with the supreme court gutting the federal government, giving the president god-like powers, and with no sign of doing anything about lobbying. Hell might as well just start listing who is on which payroll so we can petition the companies directly since we know the politicians don't give a flying **** about regular people as long as they get their regulations removed and their profit augmented through specious laws that in the end will hurt everyone except the mega-rich. If I have become more liberal in one area it is this one, even as a moderately high-earner myself. But even the "liberals" in government pay lip-service to these ideas, because they know where their bread is buttered. Won't be long and they will be supporting these tax cuts or issuing their own, at the behest of their corporate overlords. God we are so ****ed. We will be known to kids a hundred years from now as the country that was destroyed by the almighty dollar.

 

[Safetydan]

This.

We really need tax INCREASES to pay for all the **** we are borrowing to pay for now. These tax cuts appease the rich, sound nice to the middle and lower class (why I will never know since a SUBSTANTIAL portion of them pay very minimal or no taxes at all, or get rebates, child tax credit, for example), and then cause us to borrow incessantly. This affects other things like tariffs (deals with countries we have to borrow from), and inflation. It might seem like it is meaningless but it's not. And of course the ever-present threat of destroying the only social safety net we have for our seniors in social security payments, which have been 20 years from running out (or more appropriately, being re-allocated to pork-barrel projects to benefit the wealthy) for going into 5 decades now. We desperately need to RAISE corporate taxes and capital gains and institutes taxes on wealthy accumulation so we can provide the needed safety nets that other developed nations have already figured out, like the Scandinavian countries, Germany, etc.. Of course we are a hair's breadth from being a full-on plutocracy especially with the supreme court gutting the federal government, giving the president god-like powers, and with no sign of doing anything about lobbying. Hell might as well just start listing who is on which payroll so we can petition the companies directly since we know the politicians don't give a flying **** about regular people as long as they get their regulations removed and their profit augmented through specious laws that in the end will hurt everyone except the mega-rich. If I have become more liberal in one area it is this one, even as a moderately high-earner myself. But even the "liberals" in government pay lip-service to these ideas, because they know where their bread is buttered. Won't be long and they will be supporting these tax cuts or issuing their own, at the behest of their corporate overlords. God we are so ****ed. We will be known to kids a hundred years from now as the country that was destroyed by the almighty dollar.

Join me on the left comrade. United we bargain, divided we beg.

 

[LogGrad98]

What do you think Utah would look like if we got 100% turnout. Or, even better, Texas or Florida.

Utah, guaranteed would be 70% republican at least. Maybe 20% democrat and a solid 10% "other". Give or take 5% in any direction on those.

Texas I think would be more balanced, still 60% republican easy.

Florida would be more balanced as well, I think, maybe like Texas.