Jackpotting Around Episode 17

[NUMBERICA]

Because Lyles and Huerter give you less wins than John Collins. Lyles expires this year and Huerter's expiring is an easier trade than Collins expiring. Shooters always have some sort of value.

Ainge isn’t doing that. There has to be at least the appearance of future-facing talent value (or just general talent upgrade) for him to do it.

I’m also not that convinced that Collins actually helps the Jazz win games so I’m not in a rush to trade him. Kessler is much more of an anti-tank, Collins is kind of stealth-tanky. That dynamic matters because Collins pushes Kessler off the floor (or forces a three-big lineup).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My sense is Sac has been desperate to get off of Huerter, so I have no idea how he is an asset.

And I mention Carter because Ainge is going to ask for an actual asset, but Sacramento needs to salary match so an old rookie guard that won’t play for six months seems to fit the bill.

Huerter was really good his first year in Sacramento.

Of course I don't have full context for the going on a of the Kings, but Mike Brown seems to not love him and Monk/Murray got more shots/usage over his.

I think he's a better piece to have for Utah than Collins as far as a trade chip.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Ainge isn’t doing that. There has to be at least the appearance of future-facing talent value for him to do it.

I’m also not that convinced that Collins actually helps the Jazz win games so I’m not in a rush to trade him. Kessler is much more of an anti-tank, Collins is kind of stealth-tanky.

Collins as a 3rd big, which if you believe Tony Jones that is what they will do this year with Walker starting, is very much a positive impact player. I think he just had a weird adjustment year.

Ainge doesn't have to have value everywhere. He once traded Bogey for Kelly Olynyk

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And no, they aren't going to trade the guy they just selected in the lotto just because he will be out for a year for a player that has neutral value at best.

 

[NUMBERICA]

TJ did throw some cold water on the Brandon Ingram stuff in his interview with Spence a couple days ago... also mentioned Super Swaps. He did mention Okoro but I think this is the team and we do a salary dump maybe.

Standing pat ain’t gonna accomplish the mission.

 

[NUMBERICA]

And no, they aren't going to trade the guy they just selected in the lotto just because he will be out for a year for a player that has neutral value at best.

That’s fine. I think that’s the price, though.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That’s fine. I think that’s the price, though.

That's insane. Tony has said the Jazz would give JCx2 away if they could. They aren't going to ask for a lottery pick.

The best you could do is a 2nd rounder or two

 

[KqWIN]

I hadn't thought about SAC as a Collins destination, but it makes sense. I think Collins and Huerter are in a similar boat as players. Collins is maybe a little bit better, Huerter is a more desired archetype. Both are coming off disappointing seasons.

Looking at the Kings roster, their backup bigs suck. Lyles and Len is all they have, and that leaves a lot to be desired. Their best bench players are all perimeter guys. Monk, Ellis, Huerter, and Carter (once he returns) could be their four best bench players. It would make sense for them to move one of them for a backup big to balance the roster, Huerter is the obvious choice.

If I were them, I'd probably look at targeting Isaiah Stewart or one of the Orlando bigs....but Collins is also a great fit there. Can play with and without Sabonis.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Ainge doesn't have to have value everywhere. He once traded Bogey for Kelly Olynyk

Okay, that’s technically true, however:
1) Bogey had a promise from the org to be shipped out before the start of the season
2) Ainge ****ing loves Olynyk. I highly doubt he feels that way about a guard that can’t defend and a forward who is a kinda-lazy ****-head.
3) if Ainge is trading for players he doesn’t particularly like (at best), he’s going to ask for young players or 1st round picks.

 

[fishonjazz]

View attachment 17012

I mean, this kind of makes sense for both sides?

Collins is way way better than Lyles. They have a 3 man guard rotation of DDR/Fox/Monk. They are going to play Murray a lot at the 3. Huerter was getting benched for them because of defense and he doesn't really make sense on their roster.

Lyles expires after the year and you can just let him ride the pine. You can probably trade Huerter during the season. If not he is easy to trade as an expiring, or maybe you just keep him as a bench shooter? Its not like he will add that many wins.

Seems like the Kings want to push in and this is a way to add talent without paying a big price tag.

I would be down with that

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Thr Kings have all their 2nd rounders and a Portland 2025 second rounder (so like a pick in the 31-34 range).

So maybe you could get a second, maybe.

 

[fishonjazz]

My sense is Sac has been desperate to get off of Huerter, so I have no idea how he is an asset.

He isn't an asset for them. They are trying to win.
For us he is an asset because he helps us get rid of Collins who will take minutes and add wins where hueter won't take minutes and we can add losses

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

3) if Ainge is trading for players he doesn’t particularly like (at best), he’s going to ask for young players or 1st round picks.

How much does he like John Collins and his 53 million remaining dollars on his deal? I would say he's rather be paying Huerter 17 million next year.

This is the strangest pushback. We know they want to trade Collins. They arent asking for a first.

 

[NUMBERICA]

He isn't an asset for them. They are trying to win.
For us he is an asset because he helps us get rid of Collins who will take minutes and add wins where hueter won't take minutes and we can add losses

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I would use another word besides “asset” in that case.

And again, I think as long as we have Kessler that Collins makes us worse.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I hadn't thought about SAC as a Collins destination, but it makes sense. I think Collins and Huerter are in a similar boat as players. Collins is maybe a little bit better, Huerter is a more desired archetype. Both are coming off disappointing seasons.

Looking at the Kings roster, their backup bigs suck. Lyles and Len is all they have, and that leaves a lot to be desired. Their best bench players are all perimeter guys. Monk, Ellis, Huerter, and Carter (once he returns) could be their four best bench players. It would make sense for them to move one of them for a backup big to balance the roster, Huerter is the obvious choice.

If I were them, I'd probably look at targeting Isaiah Stewart or one of the Orlando bigs....but Collins is also a great fit there. Can play with and without Sabonis.

I would say Collins fits their roster needs much better than Huerter, but he is paid more and I'm sure the Kings probably have some financial concerns.

 

[KqWIN]

I think we win more games with Huerter and Lyles than Collins btw. Huerter will take up minutes that would have gone to young players who are the best tank commanders in the league. Collins minutes will be replaced by Eubanks/Lyles and more Kessler minutes.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think we win more games with Huerter and Lyles than Collins btw. Huerter will take up minutes that would have gone to young players who are the best tank commanders in the league. Collins minutes will be replaced by Eubanks/Lyles and more Kessler minutes.

That's insane to think. Collins as a 3rd big is a very good player.

Also you don't have to play Lyles at all. Huerter is also much easier to trade.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How much does he like John Collins and his 53 million remaining dollars on his deal? I would say he's rather be paying Huerter 17 million next year.

This is the strangest pushback. We know they want to trade Collins. They arent asking for a first.

Time out, so you’re telling me John Collins makes $53 million remaining dollars, but Huerter only makes $17 million next year??? Wowee, sounds too good to be true, almost like you’re being intellectually dishonest.

It’s two years of Huerter for $35 million plus Lyles’ $8 million this year. It’s a difference of $10 million over two years… for a team with little or no functional cap space.

I don’t think it’s enough.

 

[KqWIN]

I would say Collins fits their roster needs much better than Huerter, but he is paid more and I'm sure the Kings probably have some financial concerns.

I think that's a fair assessment. Looking at the Kings cap situation....It doesn't effect them much. You are adding $10M more for the following year (which is not nothing), but the Kings are not a cap space team. One could argue that the larger expiring contract is more desirable when it doesn't come at a large opportunity cost.

I don't necessarily buy the notion that the Kings are desperate to get rid of Huerter though. He was great his first year with the Kings. He's just about to turn 26, so definitely an opportunity to rebound. Some would consider me a Collins apologist, but even I can acknowledge that having good shooting wings who don't suck are super valuable. It just happens to be the case that the Kings are desperate for a big and Collins would be great for them and also a great situation for Collins to thrive in.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Time out, so you’re telling me John Collins makes $53 million remaining dollars, but Huerter only makes $17 million next year??? Wowee, sounds too good to be true, almost like you’re being intellectually dishonest.

It’s two years of Huerter for $35 million plus Lyles’ $8 million this year. It’s a difference of $10 million over two years… for a team with little or no functional cap space.

I don’t think it’s enough.

What's easier to trade? A 17 million expiring or a 26 million dollar expiring?

If this trade is on the table, which I doubt it is, I don't think the Kings want to commit to that salary, the Jazz would jump on it.