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Kamala Harris for Pres

MT Steve said:
What are your thoughts on wages increasing at a slower rate than the cost of living?
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The influx of people coming into our country is hurting American citizens wages. People like to bash big businesses, yet are happy with our open borders that are supplying cheap labor and hurting the wage market.

Example, let’s say I owned a pool cleaning Business. I’m hiring a new tech and I get a 100 applicants. I now know I can low ball my hourly wage for this low skilled position. If I had 4 applicants, I would have to raise or out bid another company to hire a person for my open position.

MT Steve said:
I don't think it's controversial to point out that comfortably supporting a familiy on one income is much more difficult today than it was in previous decades.
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It’s not controversial; Families are struggling with 2 incomes and it is absolutely more difficult today to support a family on one income.
MT Steve said:
Do you attribute this to something other than the ever-increasing gap between the upper class and the middle/lower classes? (Not trying to be antagonistic - I'm genuinely curious of your thoughts).
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I honestly believe that companies look to make as much money as they can and that will move more money to wealthy. Then the wealthy will have more opportunities to invest that money to make even more.

I also believe our welfare system is broken and doesn’t provide the actual resources needed to help our citizens have opportunities. Example, schooling for the underprivileged. Being zoned for poor schools will never help the majority of these kids. School choice will fix this. Updated modern curriculum, trade schools, financial literacy, entrepreneurship and mentorship programs would help these kids get opportunities to help their families financial status.

But I also acknowledge that you can’t force people to take the opportunities that are given or shown. So there will always be poverty, there will always be lazy people, there will be people who choose comfort over risk, there will be people who value other things over career and income. So there will always be a wealth gap.

I believe there should be a system to help anyone who wants to get a head, chances too. We are just not there, yet.
 
We should keep in mind that we already saw what Trump did when he could help the “poor slob working man”, he:

1. Attempted to take away his health care and came within a John McCain thumbs down of doing so.
2. Passed massive tax cuts for the rich (his top donors). This added over $10 trillion that your children and grandchildren will pay for while Donald’s billionaire class celebrated.
3. Every year he proposed a budget that included cuts to Medicare and social security.

If you believe he’s a champion of the poor forgotten man, then you’re probably so stupid that you believe in his lie that he has nothing to do with Project 2025.

And before you trash Harris, you should remember that she’s looking to build on the economic policy that has rocketed our economy to new heights. The Biden economic plan has put Americans back to work and has drastically improved our salaries. Manufacturing has come back in ways that Donald only pretended. Literally infrastructure week happened without Donald whining about **** hole countries.

You don’t have to agree with Harris on everything. But if you care about economics, then your wallet demands that you keep with Democrats. All republicans care about is feeding their billionaire class. It’s been this way since Reagan guys. Time to wake up
 
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RandyForRubio said:
Are we really going to ignore that Thriller called illegal immigrants cheap labor? And used that as a reason for why they shouldn’t be deported? And nobody else thinks that’s remotely racist?
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Please stop calling them illegal immigrants. This is a term that is no longer acceptable. If you want to have an adult conversation then please start calling them undocumented immigrants. And Trump has called for deporting more than undocumented immigrants. I wouldn’t expect you to know this because you either lack the character to admit that you were wrong or because the junk information you consume only successfully indoctrinates you.

No, I don’t believe we should be deporting undocumented immigrants, asylum seekers, political opponents of Trump, and DREAMers. I don’t believe in breaking up families. I believe in the American dream. I believe that we should welcome as many hard working immigrants as possible. But if Trump succeeds at deporting the millions of people he says, it will deal tremendous damage to our country, economically, socially, and morally.

If you truly care about racism, please denounce this man right now and promise that you’ll do everything in your power to defeat him this fall. Do it, I dare you.


View: https://youtu.be/HcMFmoTCdcU?feature=shared



View: https://youtu.be/6edVqIY67JM?feature=shared



View: https://youtu.be/BURiu_OvWdU?feature=shared


(Hitler literally said this)
View: https://youtu.be/RKPFjAhd3KQ?feature=shared
 
MT Steve said:
Price control works when it comes in the form of breaking up monopolies and in scenarios where, as Fish brought up, only a tiny number of companies control the overwhelming majority of the supply.

The free market fails under those scenarios, and, if left unchecked, just results in a small handful of people profiting massively while everybody else loses.
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Yes. It's called price leadership. Essentially collusion without the need for actually colluding.

Food, as it is necessary for survival, has unlimited demand. Once an oligopoly exists price competition goes away, and people have to eat. They can raise the prices all they want and people are going to pay them. Econ 101 BS doesn't apply in these late stage capitalist scenarios.



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Safetydan said:
Yes. It's called price leadership. Essentially collusion without the need for actually colluding.

Food, as it is necessary for survival, has unlimited demand. Once an oligopoly exists price competition goes away, and people have to eat. They can raise the prices all they want and people are going to pay them. Econ 101 BS doesn't apply in these late stage capitalist scenarios.



Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Food is like housing and health care, they’re necessities. The free market doesn’t apply because they’re so important. People will give up anything for them.

The free market works great for commodities. If I want a new tv I can shop around and haggle for just the right tv I want. But when I need food? Housing? Or health care? Kinda hard to do that. If you’re dying of a heart attack, suffering from a broken bone, or sick with cancer, you’ll pay any price for relief. Annndd tbjs is why the federal government exists, to protect citizens from hostile and malicious bad actors, like Donald Trump, who merely care about making a quick buck off someone’s suffering.

The trumpers on this website are repeating the same strategy they had after Obama was elected (I’d know, since I’ve been here since 2004). They’re bitching about the current situation and pretending to be “champions of the working class” while bitching about every possible solution proposed by democrats. They don’t propose anything realistic as an alternative. So we end up playing whack a hole as every proposal made by a liberal poster is immediately slammed while they themselves don’t ever have to propose a solution.

It’s easy to bitch. Much harder to solve a problem.

Given the Biden administration’s and Obama administration’s records, I’ll take them over Donald and Bush’s. Republicans tend to tank the economy and make existing problems worse. While Democrats end up burning their first terms cleaning up the messes that republicans leave behind.

It’s not partisan to speak the truth. The last two Republican administrations have left their Democratic successors with just tire fires to clean up. It’s because the gop focuses too much on serving their billionaire class. And the low info rubes, like some posters here, lap it up cuz the racism and culture wars keep them in this tribe.

For those who want more info about this, I highly recommend this book:

LBJ described some of you decades ago. He had you pegged:
1723871289288.jpeg
 
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Bucknutz said:
The influx of people coming into our country is hurting American citizens wages. People like to bash big businesses, yet are happy with our open borders that are supplying cheap labor and hurting the wage market.

Example, let’s say I owned a pool cleaning Business. I’m hiring a new tech and I get a 100 applicants. I now know I can low ball my hourly wage for this low skilled position. If I had 4 applicants, I would have to raise or out bid another company to hire a person for my open position.


It’s not controversial; Families are struggling with 2 incomes and it is absolutely more difficult today to support a family on one income.

I honestly believe that companies look to make as much money as they can and that will move more money to wealthy. Then the wealthy will have more opportunities to invest that money to make even more.

I also believe our welfare system is broken and doesn’t provide the actual resources needed to help our citizens have opportunities. Example, schooling for the underprivileged. Being zoned for poor schools will never help the majority of these kids. School choice will fix this. Updated modern curriculum, trade schools, financial literacy, entrepreneurship and mentorship programs would help these kids get opportunities to help their families financial status.

But I also acknowledge that you can’t force people to take the opportunities that are given or shown. So there will always be poverty, there will always be lazy people, there will be people who choose comfort over risk, there will be people who value other things over career and income. So there will always be a wealth gap.

I believe there should be a system to help anyone who wants to get a head, chances too. We are just not there, yet.
Click to expand...

Yes the wealthy invest money but not into the economy in a way that creates wealth for everyone. The money won't circulate and be consumed and drive growth, it might be invested in shares or property or other forms of passive income. They may be entrepreneurial and start businesses but that's high risk and unlikely.

The welfare system for the most part isn't broken, in the US the big problem is that your tax system is broken, the rich simply don't pay enough tax. But this is a symptom of a bigger problem your political system is broken.

If you look at a middle class family from the 60s or 70s, a single male income working a 40 hour week could support a family in middle class opulence. Today that same family likely has both parents working and working an average of a 50 hour week to maintain the same standard of living, so in reality real wages have been utterly smashed in the last 40 years.
 
Rubashov said:
Yes the wealthy invest money but not into the economy in a way that creates wealth for everyone. The money won't circulate and be consumed and drive growth, it might be invested in shares or property or other forms of passive income. They may be entrepreneurial and start businesses but that's high risk and unlikely.

The welfare system for the most part isn't broken, in the US the big problem is that your tax system is broken, the rich simply don't pay enough tax. But this is a symptom of a bigger problem your political system is broken.

If you look at a middle class family from the 60s or 70s, a single male income working a 40 hour week could support a family in middle class opulence. Today that same family likely has both parents working and working an average of a 50 hour week to maintain the same standard of living, so in reality real wages have been utterly smashed in the last 40 years.
Click to expand...

I know @fishonjazz had a good post where he was talking about his current situation and that most people need to work to better themselves.

Here's what I'll say to that effect.

On an individual level, the above is sound advice, every person should try their best to improve their situation and that should be encouraged.

However, on a systemic level, It's easy to recognize that in the current environment, It is miles more difficult to obtain what our fathers and grandfathers were able to obtain. Housing is very difficult to obtain with a massive portion of the population priced out of this part of the American dream. Rent is heavy. People need an expensive car to survive and we have no competing public transportation infrastructure. Living expenses are a much larger expense in terms of the percentage of income earned. It feels like the ship has sailed and many were not on the boat.

Systemic issues need systemic solutions. In other words we need, not only for the boat to come back, we need a permanent bridge built.

Going after corporations that increase prices in excess of the increase in the cost of their inputs is a signal to those in difficult times that the Harris campaign has their interests at heart. It's a signal that they're going to do something for them at the expense of corporate profit margins. To say the least, I'm okay with that.

I'm also super bricked the **** up at the prospect of the return of covid era child tax credits. They need to also show that they're going to aggressively proposition for a massive increase in housing supply hopefully combined with protections for first-time homebuyers.
 
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The WP and CNN are mainstream media. They don't have a left or right bias. They have a sensationalist bias combined with incentive to protect capital. If the Republican party and MSM are going after Harris for her "communist" policies, This is just proof positive that working-class interests are being favored.

If they don't fire Lina Khan, you can bet that this is also a sign they'll be willing to continue to go after bad corporate actors and monopolies.
 
fishonjazz said:
Do you have data showing that illegal immigrants typically are paid better than most Americans?

I can see how you can think it's racist. At the same time it might be true (for reasons out of their control)

You could say illegal immigrants are cheap labor due to the fact that is hard to get high paying jobs when you are not a legal citizen, not because of their race but because the system is designed to not give high paying jobs to people without citizenship. I don't think that's racist.
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It might be better to say there is high demand for cheap labor. Companies love to utilize undocumented immigrants to fulfill that demand. We should document them, or alternatively, you could aggressively prosecute any company that hires undocumented workers.

If illegal immigration is an issue, deporting people brought here to fulfill demand is like scooping water out of a sinking boat. Except the water is people and deporting them is probably going to result in a significant amount of violence.
 
The Thriller said:
Correct. Teddy Roosevelt and FDR in particular had a lot of success with this. There definitely comes a time when the federal government should act to protect consumers from large corporations and monopolies
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Yes and that time was 1980 when deregulation of monopolies started for real.
 
Bucknutz said:
The influx of people coming into our country is hurting American citizens wages. People like to bash big businesses, yet are happy with our open borders that are supplying cheap labor and hurting the wage market.

Example, let’s say I owned a pool cleaning Business. I’m hiring a new tech and I get a 100 applicants. I now know I can low ball my hourly wage for this low skilled position. If I had 4 applicants, I would have to raise or out bid another company to hire a person for my open position.
Click to expand...

Ah but if the illegal immigrants are keeping wages down then they are also keeping prices down.

It's a catch 22. If workers make more money then they can spend (demand up and supply down is the result) more money and prices go up.


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The Thriller said:
Food is like housing and health care, they’re necessities. The free market doesn’t apply because they’re so important. People will give up anything for them.

The free market works great for commodities. If I want a new tv I can shop around and haggle for just the right tv I want. But when I need food? Housing? Or health care? Kinda hard to do that. If you’re dying of a heart attack, suffering from a broken bone, or sick with cancer, you’ll pay any price for relief. Annndd tbjs is why the federal government exists, to protect citizens from hostile and malicious bad actors, like Donald Trump, who merely care about making a quick buck off someone’s suffering.

The trumpers on this website are repeating the same strategy they had after Obama was elected (I’d know, since I’ve been here since 2004). They’re bitching about the current situation and pretending to be “champions of the working class” while bitching about every possible solution proposed by democrats. They don’t propose anything realistic as an alternative. So we end up playing whack a hole as every proposal made by a liberal poster is immediately slammed while they themselves don’t ever have to propose a solution.

It’s easy to bitch. Much harder to solve a problem.

Given the Biden administration’s and Obama administration’s records, I’ll take them over Donald and Bush’s. Republicans tend to tank the economy and make existing problems worse. While Democrats end up burning their first terms cleaning up the messes that republicans leave behind.

It’s not partisan to speak the truth. The last two Republican administrations have left their Democratic successors with just tire fires to clean up. It’s because the gop focuses too much on serving their billionaire class. And the low info rubes, like some posters here, lap it up cuz the racism and culture wars keep them in this tribe.

For those who want more info about this, I highly recommend this book:

LBJ described some of you decades ago. He had you pegged:
View attachment 17068
Click to expand...
.Screenshot_2024-08-12-10-47-26-30_ee7135fcf97d3e3ba40b5916618c1252.jpg

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
Safetydan said:
I know @fishonjazz had a good post where he was talking about his current situation and that most people need to work to better themselves.

Here's what I'll say to that effect.

On an individual level, the above is sound advice, every person should try their best to improve their situation and that should be encouraged.

However, on a systemic level, It's easy to recognize that in the current environment, It is miles more difficult to obtain what our fathers and grandfathers were able to obtain. Housing is very difficult to obtain with a massive portion of the population priced out of this part of the American dream. Rent is heavy. People need an expensive car to survive and we have no competing public transportation infrastructure. Living expenses are a much larger expense in terms of the percentage of income earned. It feels like the ship has sailed and many were not on the boat.

Systemic issues need systemic solutions. In other words we need, not only for the boat to come back, we need a permanent bridge built.

Going after corporations that increase prices in excess of the increase in the cost of their inputs is a signal to those in difficult times that the Harris campaign has their interests at heart. It's a signal that they're going to do something for them at the expense of corporate profit margins. To say the least, I'm okay with that.

I'm also super bricked the **** up at the prospect of the return of covid era child tax credits. They need to also show that they're going to aggressively proposition for a massive increase in housing supply hopefully combined with protections for first-time homebuyers.
Click to expand...
I would add in regards to my personal situation: I was very lucky and fortunate. I was born into an amazing family with amazing perfect parents who provided anything I needed. They would have paid for my college if I had applied myself.

I ****ed off all through my 20's. Got a pretty good job eventually through knowing someone. I got my current position and I'm not even qualified for it. I have been blessed with good genes and im quite healthy despite living the opposite of a healthy lifestyle. I'm lazy and easily satisfied. I never gave much effort on my life to try to make more money. I lucked into wanting to buy a house at the perfect time (got lucky on the timing of meeting my wife)

Most people who put in the effort I have would be ****ed. I have simply been lucky.

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fishonjazz said:
Ah but if the illegal immigrants are keeping wages down then they are also keeping prices down.

It's a catch 22. If workers make more money then they can spend (demand up and supply down is the result) more money and prices go up.


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Click to expand...
You are assuming a very simplistic model of transactions here. Folks having more cash in a general sense does not mean prices go up as a result if the cash is equated out from supply elsewhere. Hence my earlier comments regarding a balanced budget and making sure corporations and the wealthy actually pay taxes.
 
TheStormofWar said:
You are assuming a very simplistic model of transactions here. Folks having more cash in a general sense does not mean prices go up as a result if the cash is equated out from supply elsewhere. Hence my earlier comments regarding a balanced budget and making sure corporations and the wealthy actually pay taxes.
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Idk man. I think that if everyone at the bottom was given raises (the cheap labor vanishes with the immigrants being deported or stopped from coming in) then more spending would happen and more goods would be purchased and businesses would see an opportunity to make more money and therefore raise prices.

I'm not super knowledgeable on this stuff but my common sense and logic are pretty strong suits of mine and they are telling me this would happen. Definitely could be wrong though.

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fishonjazz said:
Idk man. I think that if everyone at the bottom was given raises (the cheap labor vanishes with the immigrants being deported or stopped from coming in) then more spending would happen and more goods would be purchased and businesses would see an opportunity to make more money and therefore raise prices.

I'm not super knowledgeable on this stuff but my common sense and logic are pretty strong suits of mine and they are telling me this would happen. Definitely could be wrong though.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if wages went up but spending didn't even increase that prices would still increase. Businesses would recognize the wage increases and figure its a great opportunity to raise prices and just do it anyway. Kind of like when the minimum wage increased in california so now fast food workers were making more money we quickly saw the price of fast food go up and I dont think those fast food workers started spending like crazy they probably simply started to be able to pay some bills.
 
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