Potential Walker Trade Discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

Its slow right now. One thing that has lingered out there is New Orleans and their center deal. This local NO guy has been mentioning Collins for Ingram or Kessler for Hawkins for a while. Part of the appeal is NO gets out of the tax.


View: https://x.com/FearTheBrown/status/1827057598924730820


I like Hawkins but not really much of a fit with all the stuff we have going right now. I wonder what else we could get with Hawkins if they went that route. Maybe he could move to another team. Just not sure there are enough dev minutes for Hawkins/Brice/Williams/Collier so I would want something more.

IDK its slow and this was kinda interesting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It would have to be Hawkins + the 2027 Milwaukee first to make Utah think about it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think the Jazz are going to hold out on the Pelicans and anticipate some kind of Brandon Ingram injury that pushes the Pelicans into wanting to do Svi/Collins for Ingram.

 

[idiot]

As a pro-Kessler guy:

Why would we give away the better player to save another team from the tax? If they want to save money, we could explore Hawkins for Sensabaugh

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

As a pro-Kessler guy:

Why would we give away the better player to save another team from the tax? If they want to save money, we could explore Hawkins for Sensabaugh

I'm closer to anti-Kessler than pro-Kessler and I wouldnt even do it straight up. It would be moronic.

 

[KqWIN]

We would certainly lose more with Hawkins vs Kessler….but I’m not sure it’s worth the lotto balls to give up the better player. My stance on Kessler is that he’s available for the right price….Hawkins isn’t enough.

I don’t care about the hypothetical fit of players who haven’t proven themselves yet….Just don’t think Hawkins is good enough on his own.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

As a pro-Kessler guy:

Why would we give away the better player to save another team from the tax? If they want to save money, we could explore Hawkins for Sensabaugh

Because if the other team has some incentives they may give more. That's why.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We would certainly lose more with Hawkins vs Kessler….but I’m not sure it’s worth the lotto balls to give up the better player. Imu stands on Kessler is that he’s available for the right price….Hawkins isn’t enough.

I don’t care about the hypothetical fit of players who haven’t proven themselves yet….Just don’t think Hawkins is good enough on his own.

I think it just makes it murkier in some respects when you have multiple unproven talents. Need runway/playing time to make a good evaluation.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think it just makes it murkier in some respects when you have multiple unproven talents. Need runway/playing time to make a good evaluation.

Yes, fit does matter and it's dumb to say it doesnt. The Jazz just dont need another non top 30 rookie contract player on the team when they will have 3 more rookie contracts joining the team in 2025. They should be adding talent, not subtracting, when it comes to rookie contracts. Walker Kessler is just a flat out better asset on his rookie deal than Hawkins is.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes, fit does matter and it's dumb to say it doesnt. The Jazz just dont need another non top 30 rookie contract player on the team when they will have 3 more rookie contracts joining the team in 2025. They should be adding talent, not subtracting, when it comes to rookie contracts. Walker Kessler is just a flat out better asset on his rookie deal than Hawkins is.

yeah I think it would have to be the other stuff that makes it worth it. Like if NO is adding a pick or what can we flip Hawkins for. I do think this adds a handful of losses that we kind of need. We could do better if that was the only purpose though.

 

[KqWIN]

I think it just makes it murkier in some respects when you have multiple unproven talents. Need runway/playing time to make a good evaluation.

Meh…it matters to some degree but not much of a consideration when thinking about trading a player of Kessler’s caliber. If any of the young guys are good, they will get there with or without Hawkins and the addition of Hawkins would increase our chances at having one or more good players out of that group. I have more thoughts about this in the PT thread.

At the end of the day, Walker is just wayyy better than Hawkins so a straight swap is a complete non starter.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

yeah I think it would have to be the other stuff that makes it worth it. Like if NO is adding a pick or what can we flip Hawkins for. I do think this adds a handful of losses that we kind of need. We could do better if that was the only purpose though.

If you want losses and you think Kessler adds that many wins just sit him against bad teams.....

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Meh…it matters to some degree but not much of a consideration when thinking about trading a player of Kessler’s caliber. If any of the young guys are good, they will get there with or without Hawkins and the addition of Hawkins would increase our chances at having one or more good players out of that group. I have more thoughts about this in the PT thread.

At the end of the day, Walker is just wayyy better than Hawkins so a straight swap is a complete non starter.

I wouldn't do it straight up. I just wonder what else might come with it to make it worth it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you want losses and you think Kessler adds that many wins just sit him against bad teams.....

Not really how it works or that effective. You can win games against mid/good teams too.

 

[MT Steve]

I've already argued to death why settling for a meh Kessler trade just to get a handful more losses is a real bad idea, and I definitely don't want to rehash it.

Just going to point out that all the signaling from the Jazz seems to be that they do value Kessler highly and it would probably have to be a much stronger deal for them to consider it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not really how it works or that effective. You can win games against mid/good teams too.

Yeah, I don't think Kessler is winning that many games for the Jazz. I think he makes the games more competitive, but we are severely overrating Kessler if we think he is making the Jazz win games. If the Jazz are winning games it's because of Sexton/Lauri and Collins/Clarkson being motivated to show the league they aren'tas bad as they were last year

 

[KqWIN]

I wouldn't do it straight up. I just wonder what else might come with it to make it worth it.

If you squint, I think you could talk yourself into Hawkins being a late first kind of value….some teams might like him more or less. I think a good first might get it done. I think they have the better of their 27 and MIL 27. That makes is somewhat close, idk. It starts the conversation at least.

 

[KqWIN]

Pincus mocked a 3 teamer with BKN for Ingram. We send out Collins, Kessler, Brice, and a first for Ingram and Sharp.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10132448-a-3-team-trade-for-pelicans-to-move-brandon-ingram-nets-to-deal-cameron-johnson

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I don't think Kessler is winning that many games for the Jazz. I think he makes the games more competitive, but we are severely overrating Kessler if we think he is making the Jazz win games. If the Jazz are winning games it's because of Sexton/Lauri and Collins/Clarkson being motivated to show the league they aren'tas bad as they were last year

He's our 3rd most impactful player. Going from 25-30 minutes of Walker to 20 minutes of Eubanks+Flip (with Collins picking up the extra minutes) is fairly significant imo.

Not sure how much weight to give it in this evaluation but it would certainly be part of the motivation.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He's our 3rd most impactful player. Going from 25-30 minutes of Walker to 20 minutes of Eubanks+Flip (with Collins picking up the extra minutes) is fairly significant imo.

Not sure how much weight to give it in this evaluation but it would certainly be part of the motivation.

I just reject that completely. If the Jazz trade Walker, it's because they got a deal too good to pass up, not because they are worried about him winning too many games for them. The Jazz havent made a single move that has signaled they are desperate to bottom out at the expense of talent.