God and Country

[Red]

The Christian Radicals Are Coming

The movement that fueled January 6 is revving up again.

www.theatlantic.com

in the final moments of the last day, some 2,000 people were on their feet, arms raised and cheering under a big white tent in the grass outside a church in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. By then they’d been told that God had chosen them to save America from Kamala Harris and a demonic government trying to “silence the Church.” They’d been told they had “authority” to establish God’s Kingdom, and reminded of their reward in Heaven. Now they listened as an evangelist named Mario Murillo told them exactly what was expected of Christians like them.

“We are going to prepare for war,” he shouted, and a few minutes later: “I’m not on the Earth to be blessed; I’m on the Earth to be armed and dangerous.”

That is how four days under the tent would end—with words that could be taken as hyperbolic, or purely metaphorical. And on the first day, people were not necessarily prepared to accept them. But getting people ready was the whole point of what was happening in Eau Claire, an event cast as an old-fashioned tent revival, only not the kind involving Nilla wafers and repentance. This one targeted souls in swing states. It was an unapologetic exercise in religious radicalization happening in plain sight, just off a highway and down the street from a Panera. The point was to transform a like-minded crowd of Donald Trump–supporting believers into “God-appointed warriors” ready to do whatever the Almighty might require of them in November and beyond.

So far, thousands of people have attended the traveling event billed as the “Courage Tour,” including the vice-presidential candidate J. D. Vance, who was a special guest this past weekend in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. The series is part of a steady drumbeat of violent rhetoric, prayer rallies, and marches coming out of the rising Christian movement known as the New Apostolic Reformation, whose ultimate goal is not just Trump’s reelection but Christian dominion—a Kingdom of God. When Trump speaks of “my beautiful Christians,” he usually means these Christians and their leaders—networks of apostles and prophets with hundreds of thousands of followers, many of whom stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, a day preceded by events such as those happening now.

Although Murillo headlined the Eau Claire revival, the chief organizer is the influential prophet Lance Wallnau, who exhorted his followers to travel to Washington, D.C., on January 6, casting efforts to overturn the election as part of a new “Great Awakening.” Kindred events in the coming weeks include a series of concert-style rallies called “Kingdom to the Capitol,” aiming to draw crowds to state capitals in Pennsylvania, Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia, with a final concert in D.C. just days before the election. A march called “A Million Women” is planned for the National Mall in mid-October. Every day, internet prophets are describing dreams of churches under attack, Christians rising up, and the start of World War III, acclimating followers to the prospect of real-world violence…..

……When mainstream evangelicals were rejecting Trump during the 2016 GOP primary, it was Wallnau who popularized the idea that God had anointed Trump for a “special purpose,” activating a fresh wave of so-called prophecy voters. By now, he was a Mar-a-Lago regular. He had about 2 million social-media followers. He had a podcast where he hosted MAGA-world figures such as the political operative Charlie Kirk, and frequently spoke of demonic forces in U.S. and global politics. He was a frequent guest on a streaming show called FlashPoint, a kind of PBS NewsHour for the prophecy crowd, where he’d implied that the left was to blame for the July assassination attempt against Trump. Lately, he’d been saying that Harris represented the “spirit of Jezebel.”

“America is too young to die. It has an unfinished assignment,” Wallnau told the crowd now.

“Tomorrow,” he went on, “I want to talk to you about your unfinished assignment.”

 

[LogGrad98]

The Christian Radicals Are Coming

The movement that fueled January 6 is revving up again.

www.theatlantic.com

in the final moments of the last day, some 2,000 people were on their feet, arms raised and cheering under a big white tent in the grass outside a church in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. By then they’d been told that God had chosen them to save America from Kamala Harris and a demonic government trying to “silence the Church.” They’d been told they had “authority” to establish God’s Kingdom, and reminded of their reward in Heaven. Now they listened as an evangelist named Mario Murillo told them exactly what was expected of Christians like them.

“We are going to prepare for war,” he shouted, and a few minutes later: “I’m not on the Earth to be blessed; I’m on the Earth to be armed and dangerous.”

That is how four days under the tent would end—with words that could be taken as hyperbolic, or purely metaphorical. And on the first day, people were not necessarily prepared to accept them. But getting people ready was the whole point of what was happening in Eau Claire, an event cast as an old-fashioned tent revival, only not the kind involving Nilla wafers and repentance. This one targeted souls in swing states. It was an unapologetic exercise in religious radicalization happening in plain sight, just off a highway and down the street from a Panera. The point was to transform a like-minded crowd of Donald Trump–supporting believers into “God-appointed warriors” ready to do whatever the Almighty might require of them in November and beyond.

So far, thousands of people have attended the traveling event billed as the “Courage Tour,” including the vice-presidential candidate J. D. Vance, who was a special guest this past weekend in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. The series is part of a steady drumbeat of violent rhetoric, prayer rallies, and marches coming out of the rising Christian movement known as the New Apostolic Reformation, whose ultimate goal is not just Trump’s reelection but Christian dominion—a Kingdom of God. When Trump speaks of “my beautiful Christians,” he usually means these Christians and their leaders—networks of apostles and prophets with hundreds of thousands of followers, many of whom stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, a day preceded by events such as those happening now.

Although Murillo headlined the Eau Claire revival, the chief organizer is the influential prophet Lance Wallnau, who exhorted his followers to travel to Washington, D.C., on January 6, casting efforts to overturn the election as part of a new “Great Awakening.” Kindred events in the coming weeks include a series of concert-style rallies called “Kingdom to the Capitol,” aiming to draw crowds to state capitals in Pennsylvania, Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia, with a final concert in D.C. just days before the election. A march called “A Million Women” is planned for the National Mall in mid-October. Every day, internet prophets are describing dreams of churches under attack, Christians rising up, and the start of World War III, acclimating followers to the prospect of real-world violence…..

……When mainstream evangelicals were rejecting Trump during the 2016 GOP primary, it was Wallnau who popularized the idea that God had anointed Trump for a “special purpose,” activating a fresh wave of so-called prophecy voters. By now, he was a Mar-a-Lago regular. He had about 2 million social-media followers. He had a podcast where he hosted MAGA-world figures such as the political operative Charlie Kirk, and frequently spoke of demonic forces in U.S. and global politics. He was a frequent guest on a streaming show called FlashPoint, a kind of PBS NewsHour for the prophecy crowd, where he’d implied that the left was to blame for the July assassination attempt against Trump. Lately, he’d been saying that Harris represented the “spirit of Jezebel.”

“America is too young to die. It has an unfinished assignment,” Wallnau told the crowd now.

“Tomorrow,” he went on, “I want to talk to you about your unfinished assignment.”

The delusion of religion has been the source of more suffering for mankind than just about any other human social construct. Nothing quite like invisible gods telling us to kill each other for power-hungry men to latch onto to further their agendas. A modern-day Spanish inquisition. Right when we start to think we are more advanced then the middle ages you get **** like this.

 

[Red]

The delusion of religion has been the source of more suffering for mankind than just about any other human social construct. Nothing quite like invisible gods telling us to kill each other for power-hungry men to latch onto to further their agendas. A modern-day Spanish inquisition. Right when we start to think we are more advanced then the middle ages you get **** like this.

Always said I wanted to live in “interesting times”. Living when we find out we may be an evolutionary dead end-failed species qualifies, but I was hoping for “flying saucers landing on the White House lawn” as the highlight of my time on Earth. Oh well…lol.

 

[Red]

'Trump Bible' one of few that meet Walters' criteria for Oklahoma classrooms

Bibles endorsed by former President Donald Trump cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.

www.oklahoman.com

Marrying church and state in one volume…..

“Superintendent Ryan Walters isn’t just talking about buying Bibles for schools.

Bids opened Monday for a contract to supply the state Department of Education with 55,000 Bibles. According to the bid documents, vendors must meet certain specifications: Bibles must be the King James Version; must contain the Old and New Testaments; must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and must be bound in leather or leather-like material”.

 

[Red]

Christians flock to Washington to pray for America to turn to God — by electing Trump

Conservative organizers of the “Million Women” worship rally billed the event — and the November election — as “a last stand moment” to save the nation from satanic forces.

www.nbcnews.com

Tens of thousands of evangelical Christians gathered on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., on Saturday to pray for America’s atonement and for Donald Trump’s return to the White House.

Organizers of the event, billed “A Million Women,” described the gathering — and next month’s presidential election — as “a last stand moment” to save the nation from forces of darkness. For hours, the gathered masses sang worship songs, waved flags symbolizing their belief that America was founded as an explicitly Christian nation and prayed aloud for Jesus to intercede on behalf of Trump in November.

“If we don’t stand now,” said Grace Lin, who traveled from Los Angeles for the rally and came wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat, “then the enemy will take over our country. If that happens, that’s the end.”

Lou Engle, the self-described prophet who organized the event, said God told him in a dream to call on a million women to march on Washington in order to restore God’s dominion over the nation. Engle is a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation, a movement of charismatic Christians who for years have portrayed U.S. politics as a spiritual clash between good and evil and Trump as a flawed leader anointed by God to redeem the nation.

“Listen to the cries of your people,” Engle shouted Saturday as thousands of followers lifted their hands to the sky. “Save us, God!”

From a stage overlooking the Washington Monument, Engle and other speakers warned of a multitude of threats they say are facing America: crime, religious persecution, abortion and the growing acceptance of LGBTQ people.

 

[LogGrad98]

Christians flock to Washington to pray for America to turn to God — by electing Trump

Conservative organizers of the “Million Women” worship rally billed the event — and the November election — as “a last stand moment” to save the nation from satanic forces.

www.nbcnews.com

Tens of thousands of evangelical Christians gathered on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., on Saturday to pray for America’s atonement and for Donald Trump’s return to the White House.

Organizers of the event, billed “A Million Women,” described the gathering — and next month’s presidential election — as “a last stand moment” to save the nation from forces of darkness. For hours, the gathered masses sang worship songs, waved flags symbolizing their belief that America was founded as an explicitly Christian nation and prayed aloud for Jesus to intercede on behalf of Trump in November.

“If we don’t stand now,” said Grace Lin, who traveled from Los Angeles for the rally and came wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat, “then the enemy will take over our country. If that happens, that’s the end.”

Lou Engle, the self-described prophet who organized the event, said God told him in a dream to call on a million women to march on Washington in order to restore God’s dominion over the nation. Engle is a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation, a movement of charismatic Christians who for years have portrayed U.S. politics as a spiritual clash between good and evil and Trump as a flawed leader anointed by God to redeem the nation.

“Listen to the cries of your people,” Engle shouted Saturday as thousands of followers lifted their hands to the sky. “Save us, God!”

From a stage overlooking the Washington Monument, Engle and other speakers warned of a multitude of threats they say are facing America: crime, religious persecution, abortion and the growing acceptance of LGBTQ people.

This is a good way to prove there is no God. Because I'm sure plenty more are praying he loses. So you can decide based on which side he chooses. If Trump wins, either there is no God or God is evil, so this will be telling. Either way those people are praying that God let's the devil win. What does that say about Christians then?

 

[str8line]

Christians flock to Washington to pray for America to turn to God — by electing Trump

Conservative organizers of the “Million Women” worship rally billed the event — and the November election — as “a last stand moment” to save the nation from satanic forces.

www.nbcnews.com

Tens of thousands of evangelical Christians gathered on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., on Saturday to pray for America’s atonement and for Donald Trump’s return to the White House.

Organizers of the event, billed “A Million Women,” described the gathering — and next month’s presidential election — as “a last stand moment” to save the nation from forces of darkness. For hours, the gathered masses sang worship songs, waved flags symbolizing their belief that America was founded as an explicitly Christian nation and prayed aloud for Jesus to intercede on behalf of Trump in November.

“If we don’t stand now,” said Grace Lin, who traveled from Los Angeles for the rally and came wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat, “then the enemy will take over our country. If that happens, that’s the end.”

Lou Engle, the self-described prophet who organized the event, said God told him in a dream to call on a million women to march on Washington in order to restore God’s dominion over the nation. Engle is a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation, a movement of charismatic Christians who for years have portrayed U.S. politics as a spiritual clash between good and evil and Trump as a flawed leader anointed by God to redeem the nation.

“Listen to the cries of your people,” Engle shouted Saturday as thousands of followers lifted their hands to the sky. “Save us, God!”

From a stage overlooking the Washington Monument, Engle and other speakers warned of a multitude of threats they say are facing America: crime, religious persecution, abortion and the growing acceptance of LGBTQ people.

Grape juice or Kool-Aid?


-Grape juice for communion is passed out during the “Million Women” rally in Washington, D.C., on Saturday.Maansi Srivastava for NBC News

 

[Red]

Good vs. Evil….

https://wapo.st/4fjDAno

Part revival, part rally, the Louisiana stop of the Rescue America Tour reflected the mood inside a powerful MAGA voting bloc in the countdown to Election Day. The organizers, superstars in an ascendant Christian nationalist movement, assured the crowd they could “take back” the nation from “enemies” within weeks, if only faithful Republicans did their duty and voted for Donald Trump.


“We have every right there is to tell the Devil: ‘You take your hands off this nation!’” roared televangelist Kenneth Copeland, who put on a U.S. flag jacket and red MAGA hat when he took the stage.

The overall message of the gathering outside New Orleans, which was organized by the popular Christian television show “FlashPoint,” was that an existential fight for America is unfolding at the grass roots, with the election offering a historic opportunity to remake the nation. But the schemes of the enemy were of such magnitude, speakers warned the audience, that only an overwhelming Christian turnout could guarantee Trump’s return.

“Go register and find out where you’re supposed to go, and go over there and do your God-granted, honorable thing to live in a democratic republic. Hallelujah!” Copeland said to applause. “That vote is a sacred honor, and that ballot is precious.”

Christian nationalism has been intertwined with conservative politics for decades, scholars say, picking up steam in the 1970s after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of a ban on school-sponsored prayer in public education. The ideology gradually seeped into the mainstream through conservative campaigns such as the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition in the Reagan era, and later through tea party figures.

Scholars debate how fast Christian nationalism is growing in terms of followers — the ideology spans denominations and has no central leadership — but they agree that it has expanded in influence and visibility by rooting itself at the heart of Republican Party politics during the Trump era.

A Public Religion Research Institute report based on interviews last year with more than 22,000 adults in all 50 states found that roughly 3 in 10 Americans are “adherents or sympathizers” of Christian nationalism.

Extremism monitoring groups say Christian nationalists have played an outsize role in pro-Trump organizing, from recruiting poll workers to writing draft policies, such as those outlined in Project 2025, that they hope to see implemented should he return to office.

 

[fishonjazz]

Good vs. Evil….

https://wapo.st/4fjDAno

Part revival, part rally, the Louisiana stop of the Rescue America Tour reflected the mood inside a powerful MAGA voting bloc in the countdown to Election Day. The organizers, superstars in an ascendant Christian nationalist movement, assured the crowd they could “take back” the nation from “enemies” within weeks, if only faithful Republicans did their duty and voted for Donald Trump.


“We have every right there is to tell the Devil: ‘You take your hands off this nation!’” roared televangelist Kenneth Copeland, who put on a U.S. flag jacket and red MAGA hat when he took the stage.

The overall message of the gathering outside New Orleans, which was organized by the popular Christian television show “FlashPoint,” was that an existential fight for America is unfolding at the grass roots, with the election offering a historic opportunity to remake the nation. But the schemes of the enemy were of such magnitude, speakers warned the audience, that only an overwhelming Christian turnout could guarantee Trump’s return.

“Go register and find out where you’re supposed to go, and go over there and do your God-granted, honorable thing to live in a democratic republic. Hallelujah!” Copeland said to applause. “That vote is a sacred honor, and that ballot is precious.”

Christian nationalism has been intertwined with conservative politics for decades, scholars say, picking up steam in the 1970s after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of a ban on school-sponsored prayer in public education. The ideology gradually seeped into the mainstream through conservative campaigns such as the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition in the Reagan era, and later through tea party figures.

Scholars debate how fast Christian nationalism is growing in terms of followers — the ideology spans denominations and has no central leadership — but they agree that it has expanded in influence and visibility by rooting itself at the heart of Republican Party politics during the Trump era.

A Public Religion Research Institute report based on interviews last year with more than 22,000 adults in all 50 states found that roughly 3 in 10 Americans are “adherents or sympathizers” of Christian nationalism.

Extremism monitoring groups say Christian nationalists have played an outsize role in pro-Trump organizing, from recruiting poll workers to writing draft policies, such as those outlined in Project 2025, that they hope to see implemented should he return to office.

Now watch Bad Faith

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk

 

[The Thriller]

Not a cult


View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1851011086058762417

 

[LogGrad98]

Not a cult


View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1851011086058762417

Insanity. How can regular conservatives explain this ****?

 

[fishonjazz]

Not a cult


View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1851011086058762417

Gotta make sure the cameras are on.

Weirdos

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

 

[Red]

In depth, from Pro Publica.

Tracing the Roots of the Christian Nationalist Movement That’s Influencing Modern Politics

The Christian right has become an increasingly powerful force in American politics at every level, from school boards to the presidency. Its roots trace back decades.

projects.propublica.org

In recent years, the Christian right has become an increasingly powerful force in American politics. The belief that God has called on conservative Christians to rule over society has extended into all levels of government, from school boards to the White House.

Many pundits call this movement Christian nationalism. But while it may seem like a phenomenon born out of our current political moment, it represents the culmination of various movements with roots that trace back decades. The more extreme elements didn’t just materialize a few years ago. They’ve been there from the start.

 

[Red]

Christian Nationalists Feel Their Dark Prophecies Are Now Coming True

A fascist has been elected president. For a large swath of Republican Party, Trump was chosen by God for “such a time as this.”

www.huffpost.com

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Christian Nationalists Feel Their Dark Prophecies Are Now Coming True

A fascist has been elected president. For a large swath of Republican Party, Trump was chosen by God for “such a time as this.”

www.huffpost.com

Good to see you back posting in the forum.

 

[Red]

As I’ve been saying all along, Americanized Christian nationalism is, and will continue to be, an integral component of the emergent Americanized specie of fascism. It’s not at all difficult to see this development. I’m fond of saying people fail to recognize what is happening while it is happening. The past informs the present, but one shouldn’t expect every member of an electorate to understand that. Can’t expect America’s youth to understand how runaway inflation post WWI and during the Great Depression helped an authoritarian get elected in 1930’s Germany.

So historical comparisons will fall on deaf ears, for the most part, if those ears are attached to a youthful or first time voter. I don’t think anybody actually knows who, if anybody, actually said, “when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”, but that is happening. Now. What “can’t happen here” is happening here. And Christian nationalism is an integral part of Project 2025 as well. Christian nationalism helps justify the cruelty at the heart of a fascistic movement. Not that the majority of Trump voters are actually seeing any of this. People had the economy and inflation first and foremost in their minds. And, my maxim, lol, applies: people too often, and in numbers, fail to recognize what is happening while it’s happening.

I was as wrong as wrong can be in thinking, culturally, “we are an SNL nation”. Wrong, Red. As of last Tuesday, the biggest battle in the culture wars was won by MAGA. And Christian nationalists everywhere are happy. It represents a good ideological underpinning for the darker angels of our nature that Trump successfully used to return to power. All those darker angels that have roiled our society are about to have their day in the sun. Will we ever get those darker angels of misogyny and racism out of our national psyche? Well, the effort in that cause is in for quite the struggle now.

 

[Red]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/when-trump-not-jesus-is-the-savior.html

When Trump, Not Jesus, Is the Savior​

By Sarah Jones, senior writer for Intelligencer who covers politics and labor

Marko Elez was once shy about his convictions. The Wall Street Journalreports that the DOGE staffer used a pseudonym to post racist content on X before he deleted the account in December. “Just for the record, I was racist before it was cool,” he posted last July. Other posts expressed support for a “eugenic immigration policy,” urged the normalization of “Indian hate,” and said, “You could not pay me to marry outside of my ethnicity.” When the Journal first linked Elez to the account, the 25-year-old engineer resigned from his position with DOGE — and the right howled. The Trump White House soon took notice. “Here’s my view: I obviously disagree with some of Elez’s posts, but I don’t think stupid social-media activity should ruin a kid’s life,” Vice-President J.D. Vance announced on X. “We shouldn’t reward journalists who try to destroy people. Ever. So I say bring him back. If he’s a bad dude or a terrible member of the team, fire him for that.”

In a later reply to Representative Ro Khanna — who, like Vance’s wife, Usha, is Indian American — Vance added, “Racist trolls on the internet, while offensive, don’t threaten my kids. You know what does? A culture that denies grace to people who make mistakes. A culture that encourages congressmen to act like whiny children.” Vance is a conservative Catholic and should know that grace is the heart of the Christian tradition. As Paul said in his letter to the Ephesians, “For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” To MAGA, grace is now the gift of Donald Trump through his proxy, Elon Musk. Elez does not need to hide any longer. He did not even need to apologize. Musk has said he will rehire Elez at DOGE, where he will help reshape the federal government into an instrument of his masters and, by extension, bring to life a state Christianity made over in the image of Trump. The administration reserves grace for men like Elez and denies it to those who need it the most.

Advocates for the separation of church and state have long warned that in elevating one version of Christianity above all others, the right would transform the faith into a weapon. Conservatives would then wield it against all who dissent: other Christians, religious minorities, and LGBTQ+ people, for example. That future is now here. Although Trump is not particularly religious, he and his acolytes grasp Christianity’s cultural power and see it as a way to consolidate power around themselves while exacting retribution on their political enemies. Theirs is a Christianity marked by grievance and cruelty, corroded by the pursuit of power and the enforcement of a strict social hierarchy. Grace, when they offer it, does not encourage humility in the recipient. Rather, it is a way to keep everyone in their appointed place. The racist Elez can return to DOGE, while anyone connected to “DEI” must be purged.

Even when members of Trump’s circle praise Jesus Christ, it’s in service of the president’s state Christianity. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, who confronted the president during a prayer service last month, and Pete Hegseth both call on Jesus, but to MAGA, only one is the true Christian — and it’s not the bishop. Budde spoke of compassion and mercy; Hegseth spoke of lethality and war fighting. Allegations of rape, alcoholism, and domestic abuse did not keep Hegseth out of power. The Defense secretary has said he was redeemed by Jesus Christ, and Republican senators believed him because he had the support of the president. It was Trump, not Christ, who made all the difference; it was Trump that gave the holy utterance power, and it was Trump who saved him from irrelevance.

The Christian right’s conflation of God with Trump is not new, and today’s Christian nationalism is itself the product of a decades-old alliance between conservatives and some people of faith. Progressive Christians have long known that their conservative peers do not consider them brothers and sisters at all. What distinguishes Trump’s second term from his first is the maturity and ambition of his state religion. When Trump first took office in 2017, much was still in formation. Seven years later, his Christian backers are more enthusiastic than ever. Sated by the loss of Roe v. Wade and thrilled by Trump’s war on civil-rights protections for their foes, they want to finish what Trump once began. Christianity to them is as much as a political and racial signifier as it is a living faith, a way to cast political threats into the outer darkness. So far, it’s working.

Trump’s supporters are open about their goals. On X, Trump’s former national security advisor, Michael Flynn, accused “Lutherans” of money laundering because they receive federal grants for their work with refugees and the homeless. Musk responded, saying DOGE was “shutting down these illegal payments.” The administration also moved quickly to make it easier for immigration authorities to make arrests at churches and other houses of worship. Under Trump, no sanctuary is safe; those who harbor migrants cannot worship freely. The right to religious freedom is conditional, depending on a congregation’s allegiance to Trump. Religious groups who filed suit against the policy say it has already lowered attendance rates and left members in fear, which is not a coincidence. Adherents of Trump’s state Christianity see it as a way to root out opposition and establish total dominance. To them, anything short of absolute power is persecution.

In the book of Philippians, Paul beseeches the early Christians “to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” Trump’s loyalists — men like Musk and Vance — expect the same of us all. Anyone who does not obey Trump must be defied or punished. As Republicans plot cuts to Medicaid and call for mass deportations, they clarify their new doctrine. The tenets of their faith include a reverence for whiteness and masculinity and the infliction of pain. There is no mercy here, only cheap grace and mass suffering.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/when-trump-not-jesus-is-the-savior.html

When Trump, Not Jesus, Is the Savior​

By Sarah Jones, senior writer for Intelligencer who covers politics and labor

Marko Elez was once shy about his convictions. The Wall Street Journalreports that the DOGE staffer used a pseudonym to post racist content on X before he deleted the account in December. “Just for the record, I was racist before it was cool,” he posted last July. Other posts expressed support for a “eugenic immigration policy,” urged the normalization of “Indian hate,” and said, “You could not pay me to marry outside of my ethnicity.” When the Journal first linked Elez to the account, the 25-year-old engineer resigned from his position with DOGE — and the right howled. The Trump White House soon took notice. “Here’s my view: I obviously disagree with some of Elez’s posts, but I don’t think stupid social-media activity should ruin a kid’s life,” Vice-President J.D. Vance announced on X. “We shouldn’t reward journalists who try to destroy people. Ever. So I say bring him back. If he’s a bad dude or a terrible member of the team, fire him for that.”

In a later reply to Representative Ro Khanna — who, like Vance’s wife, Usha, is Indian American — Vance added, “Racist trolls on the internet, while offensive, don’t threaten my kids. You know what does? A culture that denies grace to people who make mistakes. A culture that encourages congressmen to act like whiny children.” Vance is a conservative Catholic and should know that grace is the heart of the Christian tradition. As Paul said in his letter to the Ephesians, “For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” To MAGA, grace is now the gift of Donald Trump through his proxy, Elon Musk. Elez does not need to hide any longer. He did not even need to apologize. Musk has said he will rehire Elez at DOGE, where he will help reshape the federal government into an instrument of his masters and, by extension, bring to life a state Christianity made over in the image of Trump. The administration reserves grace for men like Elez and denies it to those who need it the most.

Advocates for the separation of church and state have long warned that in elevating one version of Christianity above all others, the right would transform the faith into a weapon. Conservatives would then wield it against all who dissent: other Christians, religious minorities, and LGBTQ+ people, for example. That future is now here. Although Trump is not particularly religious, he and his acolytes grasp Christianity’s cultural power and see it as a way to consolidate power around themselves while exacting retribution on their political enemies. Theirs is a Christianity marked by grievance and cruelty, corroded by the pursuit of power and the enforcement of a strict social hierarchy. Grace, when they offer it, does not encourage humility in the recipient. Rather, it is a way to keep everyone in their appointed place. The racist Elez can return to DOGE, while anyone connected to “DEI” must be purged.

Even when members of Trump’s circle praise Jesus Christ, it’s in service of the president’s state Christianity. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, who confronted the president during a prayer service last month, and Pete Hegseth both call on Jesus, but to MAGA, only one is the true Christian — and it’s not the bishop. Budde spoke of compassion and mercy; Hegseth spoke of lethality and war fighting. Allegations of rape, alcoholism, and domestic abuse did not keep Hegseth out of power. The Defense secretary has said he was redeemed by Jesus Christ, and Republican senators believed him because he had the support of the president. It was Trump, not Christ, who made all the difference; it was Trump that gave the holy utterance power, and it was Trump who saved him from irrelevance.

The Christian right’s conflation of God with Trump is not new, and today’s Christian nationalism is itself the product of a decades-old alliance between conservatives and some people of faith. Progressive Christians have long known that their conservative peers do not consider them brothers and sisters at all. What distinguishes Trump’s second term from his first is the maturity and ambition of his state religion. When Trump first took office in 2017, much was still in formation. Seven years later, his Christian backers are more enthusiastic than ever. Sated by the loss of Roe v. Wade and thrilled by Trump’s war on civil-rights protections for their foes, they want to finish what Trump once began. Christianity to them is as much as a political and racial signifier as it is a living faith, a way to cast political threats into the outer darkness. So far, it’s working.

Trump’s supporters are open about their goals. On X, Trump’s former national security advisor, Michael Flynn, accused “Lutherans” of money laundering because they receive federal grants for their work with refugees and the homeless. Musk responded, saying DOGE was “shutting down these illegal payments.” The administration also moved quickly to make it easier for immigration authorities to make arrests at churches and other houses of worship. Under Trump, no sanctuary is safe; those who harbor migrants cannot worship freely. The right to religious freedom is conditional, depending on a congregation’s allegiance to Trump. Religious groups who filed suit against the policy say it has already lowered attendance rates and left members in fear, which is not a coincidence. Adherents of Trump’s state Christianity see it as a way to root out opposition and establish total dominance. To them, anything short of absolute power is persecution.

In the book of Philippians, Paul beseeches the early Christians “to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” Trump’s loyalists — men like Musk and Vance — expect the same of us all. Anyone who does not obey Trump must be defied or punished. As Republicans plot cuts to Medicaid and call for mass deportations, they clarify their new doctrine. The tenets of their faith include a reverence for whiteness and masculinity and the infliction of pain. There is no mercy here, only cheap grace and mass suffering.

To sum up: Trump isn't religious. The "oligarchs" and their staffs aren't religious, but the Vice President said that forgiving mistakes is something we should do. Jesus also was in favor of forgiving mistakes, and therefor the United States is now Christian Nationalist.

At least no one will question your commitment to sticking with this stupid idea to the bitter end.

 

[Red]

To sum up: Trump isn't religious.

Did you really think I did not know Trump was not religious? I understand he just pretends. He uses Christianity to fool his chump followers. We all know that much! And same for Musk and other oligarchs. But, that really has nothing to do with the existence(since the early 19th century) of Christian nationalism(The 19th century notion of Manifest Destiny as a rationale for Westward expansion is early Christian nationalism!). Christian nationalism has been a thing from the earliest days of the republic. Your observations are irrelevant to that fact, and irrelevant to its existence and its place as a fundamental belief among many American Christians. Of course the president and oligarchs are perfectly willing to take advantage of that belief. Do you really think I’m not well aware of their cynical and manipulative use of religion in America? Me? Where have you been?


But you have demonstrated repeatedly that you find examining American cultural history something that is boring perhaps, irrelevant to learning about and understanding one’s nation better. The latter things are good things and your anti-intellectualism is shameful. Your no brainer point that neither Trump, Musk, or other oligarchs are not religious seems obvious, but does not negate the existence of Christian nationalism. And it certainly wont stop them from using the belief in it to their own cynical aims. Of course they will!

but the Vice President said that forgiving mistakes is something we should do. Jesus also was in favor of forgiving mistakes, and therefor the United States is now Christian Nationalist.

I always scored 100 in logical syllogisms, came easy. I’m guessing you didn’t. Vance is a convert to Roman Catholicism. I spent the first 7 grades in Roman Catholic school. Every day started with a 2 mile round trip to mass, before actual classes. Never learned that “love your neighbor” exhibited the type of hierarchy(allowing us to put the children starving as a result of closing USAID in last place for anyone we might love, and as well for our illegal migrants) that Vance thought he could pass off. Always taught that love extended to our fellow man, our fellow humans. Impossible in practice, but the truth nonetheless. So, at least in my Roman Catholic education, we were never taught to prioritize love and compassion.

Interestingly, tellingly, and I believe much more supportive of the Roman Catholicism I was raised and instructed in by Catholic nuns, the Pope was disturbed enough by Vance’s efforts to be a theologian, that he sorta went to town on the VP:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/pope-vance-wrong-migrants-letter.html

Pope Criticizes Trump’s Immigration Crackdown in Apparent Response to J.D. Vance

Pope Francis pushed back on J.D. Vance’s invocation of his faith as a reason to embrace cruel immigration policy.

truthout.org

Pope Slams JD Vance’s Fake Christianity in Searing Statement

Pope Francis called out JD Vance’s made-up Christian reasoning for Trump’s cruel immigration policies.

newrepublic.com

Vance’s interpretation was not what I was taught in Catholic school. I left that faith, while still in my teens, but I have not abandoned the Golden Rule. I’m glad the Pope pointed out Vance’s distortion of Christianity, to weaken compassion for others, for what it is.

Overall, your objections are irrelevant to the thread I started. And they have always been irrelevant. Many Americans believe the United States is very special in the eyes of God, millions of Americans don’t separate church and state in their own minds. Christian nationalism has existed since the early decades of our republic. It has always seemed to me that you miss the point of this subject, in terms of its place in our history, and its impact in our current moment. That’s on you. You could chose to educate yourself instead.

 

[Red]

At least no one will question your commitment to sticking with this stupid idea to the bitter end.

To sum up, here you are advocating for anti-intellectualism. Here you are saying: “we should never be educated about aspects of American history that I have declared stupid”.

Never said Trump and Musk, et al, were “religious”. Are they willing to cynically use the public’s belief in Christian nationalism to their advantage? What do you think, lol.

In the end, I really have no idea why you mounted the type of attack and response to a thread noting the existence of Christian nationalism in the United States, and an integral part of American self image, for millions of my fellow citizens. Not sure what you have attacked ideas rooted in the cultural history of the United States, rooted in the American Experience, and how the ideas rooted in Christian nationalism are present in culture today. Pervasive to a degree, in fact.

I just think you demonstrate an anti-intellectualism, a visceral objection to learning, that is disgusting. And once again, nothing you said in this thread has anything to do with the subject of the thread.