Game Thread Jan 17, 2025 06:00PM MT: Utah Jazz @ New Orleans Pelicans

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Btw only now did I notice that Svi got a DNP-CD in this game despite us going into G-League level depth here.

I wonder if his chucking ways have got him a spot in the doghouse? THT sort of had those assignments in both of his Jazz years, so I think Hardy does use that stick.

Harkless better

 

[idiot]

The lottery isnt the issue. If draft was reverse standings like in the NFL, this would get much much uglier.

I think the problem this year is there are too many really bad teams. Wizards stand alone beneath everyone but there are 4 teams at 9 or 10 wins right now and Nets are aggressively dismantling their roster to join that pack and are starting to look like a team that may win less than a handful of games the rest of this season.

I dont think many GM's care about "pick ceilings" the way some of the hardcore tankers do... but with this many teams close to each other 1 or 2 wins may be the difference between top 3 odds and 6th (or even 7th, if Portland also joins the party). 3rd worst gets 14% and 7th gets 7.5% so you nearly halve your chances there.

I think, like with the three-point shot, the league eventually catches up to what makes mathematical sense, tradition be damned.

So, I suspect the problem of "too many" tanking teams is just going to get worse over time. I doubt this year is a one-off situation.

(And yes I agree that if we're going to keep the lotto in some form, which I'm not wedded to by any means, the NBA ought to look into flattening the odds.)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

As long as the safety net of losing is there and that safety net is better draft positioning there will be tanking.

Sure, but there will be less if there is incentive to win.

 

[idiot]

Sure, but there will be less if there is incentive to win.

What kind of incentive are you imagining, in our ring-or-failure NBA culture?

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Sure, but there will be less if there is incentive to win.

We're rehashing the same ideas in a lot of different threads, but you could tie revenue sharing based on win%.

There is already some financial incentive to win. The playoffs are huge revenue generators and I can only assume that winning teams have more fan engagement and thus revenue. I'm not sure how much more financial incentive it would require to push FO over the edge.

FWIW, I'm not a proponent of this idea as it would suck for the fans. Having the FO promote winning meaningless games and thus dropping your drafting odds so that owners can put more money in their pockets isn't something that would go over well.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What kind of incentive are you imagining, in our ring-or-failure NBA culture?

Maybe more money to use in free agency? Idk.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think, like with the three-point shot, the league eventually catches up to what makes mathematical sense, tradition be damned.

So, I suspect the problem of "too many" tanking teams is just going to get worse over time. I doubt this year is a one-off situation.

(And yes I agree that if we're going to keep the lotto in some form, which I'm not wedded to by any means, the NBA ought to look into flattening the odds.)

How much more flattening makes sense? If anything, I would unflatten them but make it so teams can only win the lottery (a top 3 pick) once every 3-5 years.

 

[fishonjazz]

Sure, but there will be less if there is incentive to win.

Sure but I didn't see the poster wanting less teams tanking but rather no tanking

 

[idiot]

How much more flattening makes sense? If anything, I would unflatten them but make it so teams can only win the lottery (a top 3 pick) once every 3-5 years.

I don't know. I could give an opinion, but there are smarter people than me that could probably figure it out better.

But, sure, I'm open to things like limiting the number of times a team can have a top pick in a given period. Lots of possible ways to deal with the issue.

 

[JazzFever]

Yeah and my response meant that this year the bottom is so packed the problem is emphasized. I dont think its about the maximum odds as much as its about not falling from 3rd to 7th due to few meaningless wins. Usually I feel like the bottom 3-4 are at their own level of bad, but this year that isnt the case.

So in a normal year the current flat lottery wouldnt cause this much tanking... but this year there will be 1-2 bad teams drafting way later than they should based on their roster.

I've always wanted pre-scheduled rotation of picks. i.e:

30 teams
6 Groupings of five teams
Your group rotates each year in priority 5->4->3->2->1 if a team is in 5 priority this year in 4 years it will be #1
Groupings rotate similarly- i.e. first 6 picks go to the #1 entry of each group, and the group priority changes yearly, so if your group picked 6th, next year it will be 5th ect
You cannot trade 1st round picks, at all. This forces teams to use other means to the draft to make changes and make's sure they can't mortgage their future.
Entirely predictable, you know infinitely ahead what your pick is going to be any particular year and can plan around it.

 

[Tanktastic]

Look, I’m happy we are benching Kessler for this game….but it just shows how pathetic the NBA is. A 23 year old having a great season resting twice in one week. The NBA has to address this.

Can't you see that this year is all about youth development as all the Jazz brass declared over and over again?

Walker is developing his... towel waving capabilities?

 

[homeytennis]

Can't you see that this year is all about youth development as all the Jazz brass declared over and over again?

Walker is developing his... towel waving capabilities?

Is he watching film of Bill Wennington?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Can't you see that this year is all about youth development as all the Jazz brass declared over and over again?

Walker is developing his... towel waving capabilities?

He missed two games calm your ****

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm once again declaring this the Elijah Harkless game

 

[Shad]

JUST LOSE

 

[fishonjazz]

If Kessler is out and Zion plays then Zion gonna eat and jazz gonna lose.

 

[framer]

Meh, just lock the two worst teams into the 3 and 4 slots, somewhat flat lottery lottery for everyone else. You can never get the top player in the draft by tearing it down to the bones. You can get A top player, bit not THE top player. Washington would be doing things different right now under these rules. Detroit would have actually benefitted.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

The answer is to give things for winning, not take away the safety net of losing.

and say goodbye to parity and the ability to get better. at least this way bad teams have a chance. as soon as you take away that "safety net" for losing the teams at the top stay at the top. if you're a team like the jazz, you don't get high draft picks and you don't get free agents. you are in nba purgatory forever.

every major u.s. sports league has that safety net of losing in the form of a draft for a reason. at least in the nba you aren't guaranteed that top spot for being the worst team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

and say goodbye to parity and the ability to get better. at least this way bad teams have a chance. as soon as you take away that "safety net" for losing the teams at the top stay at the top. if you're a team like the jazz, you don't get high draft picks and you don't get free agents. you are in nba purgatory forever.

every major u.s. sports league has that safety net of losing in the form of a draft for a reason. at least in the nba you aren't guaranteed that top spot for being the worst team.

You can have both...

 

[Tanktastic]

and say goodbye to parity and the ability to get better. at least this way bad teams have a chance. as soon as you take away that "safety net" for losing the teams at the top stay at the top.

What parity? There is no parity in the NBA. The Wizards last were good in the 70s, Hornets, Pistons, Kings haven't been good for 20 seasons or maybe for one single season.

Meanwhile, many of the top teams haven't been good because of getting high draft picks, but hitting on mid picks or trades or UFA signings (Curry, Jokic, Giannis, SGA-Butler trade, Heat & Big Three). Once Curry/Jokic/Giannis leave their respective teams, they aren't staying top and neither will there be a safety net if they bottom out.

if you're a team like the jazz, you don't get high draft picks and you don't get free agents. you are in nba purgatory forever.

The Bucks are a team like the Jazz, so are the Twolves, as are the Nuggets. Small market teams, cold climates, not a lot going on, defo not free agent havens.

every major u.s. sports league has that safety net of losing in the form of a draft for a reason. at least in the nba you aren't guaranteed that top spot for being the worst team.

And in the NFL there is very little actual tanking. Because apart from a handful of guys on every team, most players need to make their money and none of them our down with tanking. Of course the NBPA will never give an inch on guaranteed money.