Feminism

[Sardines]

I was not prepared for a game of "spot the incel" today, but luckily, this is just playing on easy mode.

@Tom Pitt

He makes a point as you are making foundational arguments found within the incel community. If that's not where you got them from then I would hate to feed you to that echo chamber but you have a lot in common with their perspective.

 

[The Thriller]

I think this poster is engaged in an honest discussion. They have less than 1000 posts over 12 years of being a member. I'm pretty sure they almost exclusively post in the Jazz section.

If you call every single person you disagree with a troll then it really makes that accusation weak coming from you.

I disagree.

And I don’t label people I disagree with as trolls. I never have and never will. Disagreement I can definitely handle. I’m a liberal who lives in Utah.

 

[Rubashov]

Haha nah. I'm not religious. But i do think there is wisdom in religion. On one hand I can see why such a large chunk of western civilization has discarded Christianity (which was key in building the west), but I think it will have consequences. For the West, Christianity was kind of like the joe ingles Glue of those good Don and Rudy teams.

There is a lot in your OP to discuss I'm just not sure I can be bothered however on the religion thing. I think its interesting to consider that religion had by and large left us, not the other way around. The US is by far the most religious country in the west and outside of the north of Ireland i can't think of a country more divided by religion, certainly in the last 40 years. Catholicism is the predominate religion of the west, the pope that came to dominate most of the 20th century was one of the more conservative popes of the last 300 years. JP 2 was an ultraconservative, he positioned the church into very conservative social positions, meanwhile his flock were going the other way, this was a conscious choice. JP2 wanted the church to maintain a conservative identity, he felt it would be smaller but more authentic and in an ever changing world that would make it stronger. He also wanted and took measures to make the church more institutionally conservative by replacing progressive cardinals with conservative ones.

Its not like religion has spent the last 2000 years, sitting unmoved in stone, it is constantly changing, I just think in the last 50 or 60 years they got it wrong. (The current pope I rate) And we haven't even started talking about the kiddie fiddling. A lot of the church's loss of relevance was self inflicted.

Lets not forget as well that the Catholic church is still ahead of McDonalds as the worlds biggest landowner too.

I think this poster is engaged in an honest discussion. They have less than 1000 posts over 12 years of being a member. I'm pretty sure they almost exclusively post in the Jazz section.

If you call every single person you disagree with a troll then it really makes that accusation weak coming from you.

You are correct

 

[Rubashov]

One issue i see with feminism is it has done more to undermine motherhood and accountability for women than anything. Women are actually applauded and encouraged to be dishonorable in the name of feminism i.e. abortion (for no reason other than not wanting the responsibility that comes with motherhood and Avoiding consequences of casual sex which i think is bad for the soul and I'm not even religious. For the record, i have no issue with abortion if the life of the mother is in jeopardy, and though I don't agree with abortion, i was fine in not over turning roe vs wade. Though even Ginsberg thought it should have been left up to the states on a constitutional basis.), onlyfans, promiscuousness.

This whole thing reads strangely to me, a lot of couples decide not to have children, why should they be forced to have children if they don't want them? Seems horribly unfair to me.

I suspect a surprising amount of young women today will say cooking an cleaning in family life is degrading, working at McDonald's is degrading, but onlyfans is not. It seems to me that Modern feminism offers nor encourages no spiritual connection to the divine. In fact it conflates such mysticism with "the patriarchy." Feminism went from equality between men and women (which is kind of silly because women never wanted full equality as men and women are different and some things men do, generally speaking, women want no part of) as the goal to men suck and it's sexist and outdated to hold women to traditional standards of morality and femininity. Feminism champions the hairy-armpit-green-haired-sexual-exhibitionist lifestyle over motherhood, marriage and commitment.

What on earth? you must have been off your ****.

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that women initiate 70% of all divorces in the USA and China. Are men that much more the responsible? Also, kind of interesting, gay men have a 22% divorce rate, lesbians have a 72% percent divorce rate and heterosexual couples tend to be between 40-50% divorce rate) Men generally get screwed in no fault divorces too as our modern society has incentivized women to break up families. I also find it interesting that women who are virgins on their wedding day, have the highest chance of not getting divorced... it's almost as if there is ancient godly wisdom in Christianity that our society decided was oppressive or wrong. I don't blame women for all of it... women are engineered to go along with and uphold the social norms or status quo of a society (at least more so than men). Just look at female group dynamics. If a woman has 5 girlfriends and 3 of them don't like a guy this woman is dating, the other 2 won't either without much thought or consideration. Its also easier for women to walk away from marriage because throughout history women had to in order to survive (i.e. husband dies in battle, conquering tribe or nation moves in, and to protect her children and her self, she would find a new man in the conquering party and assimilate into the conquering party's tribe or nation.) imo, Christianity actually gave us the best chance at functional and thriving families but a huge portion of western civilization has decided the ways of God are outdated. This is my issue with the left on some things. They get so enamored with their own intelligence, wisdom and pride, that even the institutions of God that were tried in the laboratory of history are outdated instruments of oppression or patriarchy. Doesn't the bible say the wisdom of men is foolish unto God?

Eh?

The divorce rate is a definite worry especially if you have means. Friend of mine made an excellent point many years ago, Its very easy now to leave relationships, because of technology and social media, if you have a fight with your GF, she can go home, get on her socials or on an app and there will be some dude pumping up her tyres. And everything is disposable these days as well, out with the old in with the new. There has been a values shift but i don't think it comes from religion, i think it comes from consumerism.

 

[Tom Pitt]

This whole thing reads strangely to me, a lot of couples decide not to have children, why should they be forced to have children if they don't want them? Seems horribly unfair to me.



What on earth? you must have been off your ****.



Eh?

The divorce rate is a definite worry especially if you have means. Friend of mine made an excellent point many years ago, Its very easy now to leave relationships, because of technology and social media, if you have a fight with your GF, she can go home, get on her socials or on an app and there will be some dude pumping up her tyres. And everything is disposable these days as well, out with the old in with the new. There has been a values shift but i don't think it comes from religion, i think it comes from consumerism.

I suspect there will be JP haters. But I think he's right

 

[Rubashov]

View attachment 17773

I suspect there will be JP haters. But I think he's right

Peterson is one of gods great idiots. his **** is well complete ****. he's a shill for the far right, and should be kicked to death.

Watch his interview with tommy ten names, who is a career criminal but is treated by the far right as Nelson Mandela, this is a man who has been sent to prison for slandering a 15 year old boy.

Peterson doesn't address it in the interview. after all Tommy ten names is a folk hero. Does he talk about eh thousands of pounds that Tommy ten names steals from his supporters fund to pay his coke debts? They're both grifters milking peoples discontent for their own financial gain.

I used to laugh at this **** when it was ridiculous far right preachers, they'd come to Australia and be heckled by drunks out for a bit of free entertainment on a Friday night. (At some point people took these dickheads seriously but hats another story.

if you want to maintain the fiction that JP is serious thinker, watch these two videos.



This is JP and Elons hero tommy ten names.



He's a complete fraud.

 

[The Thriller]

lol

“He’s not a troll. He’s arguing in good faith.”

I don’t think so.

“Busts out a Jordan Peterson quote.”

lol. Okay. lol. Enjoy the thread guys. lol

And if you think this is about disagreeing with someone, it’s not.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Peterson is one of gods great idiots. his **** is well complete ****. he's a shill for the far right, and should be kicked to death.

Watch his interview with tommy ten names, who is a career criminal but is treated by the far right as Nelson Mandela, this is a man who has been sent to prison for slandering a 15 year old boy.

Peterson doesn't address it in the interview. after all Tommy ten names is a folk hero. Does he talk about eh thousands of pounds that Tommy ten names steals from his supporters fund to pay his coke debts? They're both grifters milking peoples discontent for their own financial gain.

I used to laugh at this **** when it was ridiculous far right preachers, they'd come to Australia and be heckled by drunks out for a bit of free entertainment on a Friday night. (At some point people took these dickheads seriously but hats another story.

if you want to maintain the fiction that JP is serious thinker, watch these two videos.



This is JP and Elons hero tommy ten names.



He's a complete fraud.

Haha. I'll check out. Never saw the Tommy Robinson interview

Thomas Sowell?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If you call every single person you disagree with a troll then it really makes that accusation weak coming from you.

Good luck with that.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

if you think this is about disagreeing with someone, it’s not.

Fact check: true.

It is about tribal power. "Troll" is the term you use for 'other'. It isn't about the OP at all. This board has essentially become an echo chamber through making people feel unwelcome. Everyone with a contrary view has been chased off the board, and it isn't about not wanting to see a disagreeing opinion. It is about purity and the OP failed a purity test.

He’s probably the biggest troll remaining. I think if a few more of you place him on ignore and keep him ignored, he’ll leave the place to go bug others.

If it were ever about not wanting to see disagreeable content, the block button would take care of it. No, no. In the minds of many here, apostates must be driven from the board.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Wokeism has evolved into a right wing fantasy. Its very definition is like a cloud of smoke that cannot be grasped.

We don't need more kids.

Sincerely, if you are interested in good faith discussion, I'd like to explore this a bit. We're all hard wired to be tribal and our echo chambers embolden that... but I believe there are generally merits on both sides. There's also lots of lying on both sides and what tends to happen is both groups believe the other is the only one being duped.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Fact check: true.

It is about tribal power. "Troll" is the term you use for 'other'. It isn't about the OP at all. This board has essentially become an echo chamber through making people feel unwelcome. Everyone with a contrary view has been chased off the board, and it isn't about not wanting to see a disagreeing opinion. It is about purity and the OP failed a purity test.

If it were ever about not wanting to see disagreeable content, the block button would take care of it. No, no. In the minds of many here, apostates must be driven from the board.

I have lost touch with Jazzfanz and I guess I never realized how homogeneously liberal the community is

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I have lost touch with Jazzfanz and I guess I never realized how homogeneously liberal the community is

I would quibble with the term "liberal", but I get what you are saying. There are a handful of people with moderate / conservative points of view who still browse GD, but they seldom post anything because of how they get personally attacked.

 

[The Thriller]

Trumpers/right wing trolls commonly label anyone they disagree with as “liberals” in order to shut them down. Every accusation they make is a confession. They’re for free speech, as long as they agree with it. As soon as they disagree, they label, attack, and ban it. We see this everyday on social media, Trump attacking media outlets, pollsters, and folks like Liz Cheney, and Trump followers spamming message boards (like this one).

 

[Al-O-Meter]

They’re for free speech, as long as they agree with it. As soon as they disagree, they label, attack, and ban it.

Is that what "they" do? They label those voicing a thing they disagree with as a troll or similar, bypass the substance of a thought to retort via personal attack, create sizable block lists, and advocate for having those people purged from the board. That is how you see "them"?

 

[Sardines]

View attachment 17773

I suspect there will be JP haters. But I think he's right

I am a JP disagree-er. I think he's a pompous idiot.

Religion doesn't **** out meaning. We don't need religion to have meaning. In fact, if what the world was all about is accurately described in the Bible I'd literally puke because the world according to the Bible is not good, not inspiring, not meaningful. The on the ground results of the Bible influencing people is an absolute horror show. Death, war, genocide, rape, murder, and lies. Oh wait, churches feed people sometimes, and they do pot lucks on occasion and they insert themselves into everyone's marriages and deaths.

Religion is bad. Faith is worse.

Life has meaning. Not being religious does not equal nihilism. I think a God free outlook has a lot more meaning than this fairytale nonsense the Bible is about. I mean if you think praying to Unseen Lord Cloud Papa is what makes life worth living then you do you.

 

[Sardines]

Sincerely, if you are interested in good faith discussion, I'd like to explore this a bit. We're all hard wired to be tribal and our echo chambers embolden that... but I believe there are generally merits on both sides. There's also lots of lying on both sides and what tends to happen is both groups believe the other is the only one being duped.

Yeah your statement here is one I agree with. I'm on a side right now, but I'd call it a marriage of convenience since I'm so strongly opposed to the same person they are opposed to. I don't care about any political party. I think Trump is especially dangerous to the U.S. and he is dangerous to people I care about. Specifically he is dangerous to relatives of mine who are non-binary and transgender. He has expressed clearly that these relatives of mine are not to be recognized. He has specifically othered them.

This can and does have deadly consequences. Transgender women are per capita the most murdered people in the United States. I don't expect Trump's Presidency to reduce that number, I expect it to go up.

There is no possible way for me to support Trump or to be against the rights of LGBTQ people. This is a hill I would die on. Literally.

 

[Sardines]

I have lost touch with Jazzfanz and I guess I never realized how homogeneously liberal the community is

We've got at least two or three different kinds of liberals 'round here. Give us some credit.

 

[Sardines]

I am a JP disagree-er. I think he's a pompous idiot.

Religion doesn't **** out meaning. We don't need religion to have meaning. In fact, if what the world was all about is accurately described in the Bible I'd literally puke because the world according to the Bible is not good, not inspiring, not meaningful. The on the ground results of the Bible influencing people is an absolute horror show. Death, war, genocide, rape, murder, and lies. Oh wait, churches feed people sometimes, and they do pot lucks on occasion and they insert themselves into everyone's marriages and deaths.

Religion is bad. Faith is worse.

Life has meaning. Not being religious does not equal nihilism. I think a God free outlook has a lot more meaning than this fairytale nonsense the Bible is about. I mean if you think praying to Unseen Lord Cloud Papa is what makes life worth living then you do you.

Oh and I don't have to worry about us exposing you to the incel community because if you're a Jordan Peterson fan then you are very much adjacent to the incel community

 

[Rubashov]

I am a JP disagree-er. I think he's a pompous idiot.

Religion doesn't **** out meaning. We don't need religion to have meaning. In fact, if what the world was all about is accurately described in the Bible I'd literally puke because the world according to the Bible is not good, not inspiring, not meaningful. The on the ground results of the Bible influencing people is an absolute horror show. Death, war, genocide, rape, murder, and lies. Oh wait, churches feed people sometimes, and they do pot lucks on occasion and they insert themselves into everyone's marriages and deaths.

Religion is bad. Faith is worse.

Life has meaning. Not being religious does not equal nihilism. I think a God free outlook has a lot more meaning than this fairytale nonsense the Bible is about. I mean if you think praying to Unseen Lord Cloud Papa is what makes life worth living then you do you.

Peterson doesn't give two ***** about god, like all other grifters he knows where his bread is buttered. What surprises me about him is why would he abandon a fairly successful professional career for this nonsense? The money cant be that good?