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2024-2025 Tank Race

idiot said:
I stand chastened.
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We must resist the metaphysical impulses to seek explanations and comfort from Churroism and related non-empirical belief systems during this time of crisis. Practical steps we can take include establishing so called “strip clubs” that have an alluring effect on free agents. (“Free agents” should not be conflated with “free agency” or “indeterminism” lest we inexplicably fall into metaphysical stupor).
 
fishonjazz said:
We know our chances of getting Flagg are low. We all know that. We have been told many times already.
Don't rub it in
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But why are people so fixated specifically on Flagg? Historically the can't-miss-prospects were deemed such because of their otherworldly athleticism. At least after everybody shifted to being drafted at 18/19: Lebron, Wemby, Dwight Howard, Zion. But Flagg is not one of those athletic unicorns and: another player in the draft can easily end up having a better career.

A case in point is Blake Griffin: he was a good (but not freakishly good) athlete and was a unanimous 1st pick, but behind him were also drafted Harden and Curry. Another example is the unanimous 1st pick Wiggins, with Embiid and Jokic selected later. The same can easily happen this year.
 
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jazznik said:
But why are people so fixated specifically on Flagg?
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Probably because he is the person that those who get paid to evaluate college players who will be pro players think is the best. Dont over think it.
Those same people who get paid to evaluate college players seem to think he not only is the best player to enter this upcoming draft but one of the best players to enter any draft ever. Again, dont over think it.

You could also watch him play, look at his skills, look at his stats etc. Good news is that those who are paid to watch him are already doing that for us and they have watched him way more than you or I ever could as they have access we dont. They have been watching him for years at this point. They saw him play against lebron, KD, steph, Ant, etc already and look like he belongs. When he was 16 years old iirc.

In short, the reason people are so fixated on Flagg is because they should be. Dont over think it.

Question for you. Why do you think people should NOT be fixated on Flagg?
 
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Because of that post I decided to look up Flagg stats.
They were a little better than I thought.

32 minutes. 20 points, 7.6 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.2 blocks. 48.3% from the field, 37% from 3, 81.4% from the line.

Plays in a good conference against good competition.

Everything i hear is he is a good defender. Good athlete. Plays multiple positions. Versatile. Extremely young (just turned 18 in December. He was playing at Duke at a 17 year old). Good size. (6 foot 9)

In 2022, he was named USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year after winning a gold medal at the FIBA Under-17 Basketball World Cup.
He was named to the USA Select Team to practice with the United States men's national team in preparation for the 2024 Summer Olympics.

He is expected to be the second-youngest college player ever drafted to the NBA.

Damn it, now I'm even more fixated on Flagg.

Tank note Jazz. And tank on
 
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fishonjazz said:
Probably because he is the person that those who get paid to evaluate college players who will be pro players think is the best. Dont over think it.
Those same people who get paid to evaluate college players seem to think he not only is the best player to enter this upcoming draft but one of the best players to enter any draft ever. Again, dont over think it.

You could also watch him play, look at his skills, look at his stats etc. Good news is that those who are paid to watch him are already doing that for us and they have watched him way more than you or I ever could as they have access we dont. They have been watching him for years at this point. They saw him play against lebron, KD, steph, Ant, etc already and look like he belongs. When he was 16 years old iirc.

In short, the reason people are so fixated on Flagg is because they should be. Dont over think it.

Question for you. Why do you think people should NOT be fixated on Flagg?
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Because, odds are, he won't be a Jazzman.
 
framer said:
Because, odds are, he won't be a Jazzman.
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Odds are that way for literally every player who enters the draft doe.
But you know what I meant. What are the reasons to not desire Flagg on the jazz?
 
Fwiw Flagg is a smart kid apparently as well.
In the fall semester, Flagg was one of two players to earn a 4.0 GPA at Duke.
In 2023, Flagg was named the Gatorade National Boys Basketball Player of the Year and had a weighted GPA of 4.10 (is 4.10 gpa good?)
 
In high school, Flagg led Montverde Academy to a 34-0 record and the program's eighth national title.
 
And fwiw if you read through the 2025 draft thread I don't even think Flagg is the most discussed so you could argue that he isn't even the dude most people are fixated on in the first place.
 
fishonjazz said:
Because of that post I decided to look up Flagg stats.
They were a little better than I thought.

32 minutes. 20 points, 7.6 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.2 blocks. 48.3% from the field, 37% from 3, 81.4% from the line.

Plays in a good conference against good competition.

Everything i hear is he is a good defender. Good athlete. Plays multiple positions. Versatile. Extremely young (just turned 18 in December. He was playing at Duke at a 17 year old). Good size.

Damn it, now I'm even more fixated on Flagg.

Tank note Jazz. And tank on
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You know, these stats are not that different from what Filipowski posted in 30MPG before being drafted in the 2nd round: 16.4 points, 8.3 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 1.5 blocks. 51% from the field, 34% from 3, 67% from the line.
 
jazznik said:
But why are people so fixated specifically on Flagg? Historically the can't-miss-prospects were deemed such because of their otherworldly athleticism. At least after everybody shifted to being drafted at 18/19: Lebron, Wemby, Dwight Howard, Zion. But Flagg is not one of those athletic unicorns and: another player in the draft can easily end up having a better career.

A case in point is Blake Griffin: he was a good (but not freakishly good) athlete and was a unanimous 1st pick, but behind him were also drafted Harden and Curry. Another example is the unanimous 1st pick Wiggins, with Embiid and Jokic selected later. The same can easily happen this year.
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1) Flagg is the probably youngest player in college basketball (he should be in High School)
2) Flagg is the best player in college basketball
A. Flagg has an outrageous 37 PER in Conference play up from something like a 23 PER in the early season. Players don’t typically get A LOT better when the competition becomes harder, and especially not the least experienced players.​
3) Flagg is not unidimensional or a loser. He is do-**** player in all facets of the game as the best player on one of the best teams in CBB.
​
 
NUMBERICA said:
1) Flagg is the probably youngest player in college basketball (he should be in High School)
2) Flagg is the best player in college basketball
A. Flagg has an outrageous 37 PER in Conference play up from something like a 23 PER in the early season. Players don’t typically get A LOT better when the competition becomes harder, and especially not the least experienced players.​
3) Flagg is not unidimensional or a loser. He is do-**** player in all facets of the game as the best player on one of the best teams in CBB.
​
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Well said and I agree with all of that except the intimation that his conference play has been difficult. The ACC is really weak this year and most of Duke's toughest games have been non conference. That said Flagg seems to rise to the occasion and play better against the best teams. It's really all incredible.
 
jazznik said:
You know, these stats are not that different from what Filipowski posted in 30MPG before being drafted in the 2nd round: 16.4 points, 8.3 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 1.5 blocks. 51% from the field, 34% from 3, 67% from the line.
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Again, dont overthink it. You and I can watch a few games and look at some stats and make declarations like its our job, but it isn't.
 
NUMBERICA said:
1) Flagg is the probably youngest player in college basketball (he should be in High School)
2) Flagg is the best player in college basketball
A. Flagg has an outrageous 37 PER in Conference play up from something like a 23 PER in the early season. Players don’t typically get A LOT better when the competition becomes harder, and especially not the least experienced players.​
3) Flagg is not unidimensional or a loser. He is do-**** player in all facets of the game as the best player on one of the best teams in CBB.
​
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Flagg IS a great college player and has a high chance of being a great NBA player. But he does not have that rare physical advantage that you cannot teach like Howard, LeBron or Wemby did. Another player from this draft can quite plausibly have a better learning curve plus develop his body and surpass him a couple of years from now, that happened many times. Again, I am not dissing Flagg but he is not a guaranteed future NBA great like Wemby was last year. The Jazz should be happy just to get a high pick: there are several players that you can conceivably see developing into at least the same-level player as Flagg.
 

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Here are the quotes from the Jazzfanz posters discussing who the Jazz should pick with their 35th pick and talking about the future top-15 great:

- "Am I the only one who is interested in Jokic? Never seen his nane on this forum."

- "personally I take medicine when I get jokic, but if you enjoy it so be it."

- "maybe Jokic but hes a reach at 35 IMO"

- "I like Jokic, but in the 40's. though id be happy if hes the 2nd round pick, i think his skill level is that of a 1st rounder but his athleticism concerns me. Im sure better value will be on the board at 35. do you think hes a better prospect than Micic? he reminds me of Nenad Kristic"
 
jazznik said:
Flagg IS a great college player and has a high chance of being a great NBA player. But he does not have that rare physical advantage that you cannot teach like Howard, LeBron or Wemby did. Another player from this draft can quite plausibly have a better learning curve plus develop his body and surpass him a couple of years from now, that happened many times. Again, I am not dissing Flagg but he is not a guaranteed future NBA great like Wemby was last year. The Jazz should be happy just to get a high pick: there are several players that you can conceivably see developing into at least the same-level player as Flagg.
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You also cannot teach the kids to have "the dog" in them. Physical traits will never trump competitive drive. Thats what all HoFers have in common but not all of them are rare physical specimen.
 
jazznik said:
Flagg IS a great college player and has a high chance of being a great NBA player. But he does not have that rare physical advantage that you cannot teach like Howard, LeBron or Wemby did. Another player from this draft can quite plausibly have a better learning curve plus develop his body and surpass him a couple of years from now, that happened many times. Again, I am not dissing Flagg but he is not a guaranteed future NBA great like Wemby was last year. The Jazz should be happy just to get a high pick: there are several players that you can conceivably see developing into at least the same-level player as Flagg.
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I mean, he does absolutely have rare physical advantages. Are they to the extent of those 3? No, but those are also 3 of the most physically advantaged players of the last 20 years.
 
Like worst case scenario, Flagg is a 3rd option who is going to be an elite defender. Best case, he's a #1 option who can play All-D level defense when needed.
 
jazznik said:
You know, these stats are not that different from what Filipowski posted in 30MPG before being drafted in the 2nd round: 16.4 points, 8.3 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 1.5 blocks. 51% from the field, 34% from 3, 67% from the line.
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Maybe you should try watching basketball.
 
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