Is Isiah Collier finally our new Stockton?

[The Midnight]

I mean think about it:

- Both are Pass first point guards
- He just had 14 assists in the Twolves win - when was the last time a rookie had that many assists in a game?
- Collier is probably the best passer we’ve ever had since Stockton
- Both love getting teammates involved
- Initially questionable shooting but his shooting is improving
- Both are Deceptively good defenders, both excel in getting steals and interceptions, etc.
- Both play extremely tough and through getting hits and cuts - did you see his face after the game? Looks like he’s been through a fight.
- Both are extremely humble and very well liked by their teammates

Overall to me he’s the closest point guard we have to John so far and it’s been 20+ years

Still not convinced? Try doing this:

- Don't focus on their skin colors and build and looks, focus on similarities in their games.

Thouhts?

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

He’s great! Up from 10 to 7 in the latest Kia Rookie Ladder and in all honesty, has ten times the impact of Castle or Wells IMO. Hopefully gets the recognition for his playmaking in time for ROY consideration.

Kia Rookie Ladder: Stephon Castle keeps lead in up-for-grabs ROY chase

Jaylen Wells and Kel'el Ware each rise a spot in the Top 5 as the Kia Rookie of the Year chase continues to be anything but set.

www.nba.com

And yes, I see the hard-nosed characteristics that made Stockton the All time Goat at that position. That said, Hot Rod might have compared him with another acronym - FOTA and another great by the name of Rickey Green. He’s really a perfect amalgamation I believe - perfect body type and disposition. There’s a reason that he was the #1 rated recruit coming out of High School and we’re lucky AF to have him!

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He’s great! Up from 10 to 7 in the latest Kia Rookie Ladder and in all honesty, has ten times the impact of Castle or Wells IMO. Hopefully gets the recognition for his playmaking in time for ROY consideration.

Kia Rookie Ladder: Stephon Castle keeps lead in up-for-grabs ROY chase

Jaylen Wells and Kel'el Ware each rise a spot in the Top 5 as the Kia Rookie of the Year chase continues to be anything but set.

www.nba.com

And yes, I see the hard-nosed characteristics that made Stockton the All time Goat at that position. That said, Hot Rod might have compared him with another acronym - FOTA and another great by the name of Rickey Green. He’s really a perfect amalgamation I believe - perfect body type and disposition. There’s a reason that he was the #1 rated recruit coming out of High School and we’re lucky AF to have him!

He's got +5000 odds on some betting sites if you want to make the bet. He probably wont get it though because his scoring and scoring efficiency is so low. Even though we all love Collier and what he brings, and his potential, he still had a -4.0 OBPM and terrible scoring efficiency. If he can finish the year averaging 10/8, maybe he has a chance, but that seems like a long shot.

Wells is a legitimate player on a title contender, so he probably wins it in a class that doesnt have any high scoring rookies.

 

[kabenac]

There will never be another Stockton but Collier is showing some similarities. I was always a Collier homer (USC alumni) but had no idea he could pass as well as he can. He's made great strides and I'm so excited to see what he does in the offseason and how he further improves. The guy turned 20 in October - it's super exciting. He's the PG we've been waiting for... thanks, Raptors!

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Clearly he is the best rookie for the jazz this season. And I am trying hard to remember any better playmaking guard that we have had since we had Stockton.
He also is different than Stockton. Different body type. Has more power and speed. Stockton played angles better. Stockton had very limited turnovers. His passes were elite.

My HS basketball coach was Malones personal trainer. He would tell us that when Stockton passed the ball he would put the ball in your hands with the Spalding symbol on your palm so the laces were horizontal with the ground. That came from Malone.

If Collier matures in to a modern day Stockton, I would take a dump on your mom's chest to celebrate.

 

[YoungJefe]

Collier and Collins new Stockton Malone

 

[Tanktastic]

I don't who this Isiah Collier dude is, but he sounds wonderful. Don't know how I've missed him, but look forward to seeing him suit up for the Jazz.

Meanwhile the Isaiah Collier that actually is on the Jazz:
- is ranked 120th among guards in steals
- is ranked 5th in turnovers per36 for qualifying guards
- is ranked 180th among guards for shooting
- he's shooting 24 % from 3 and 62 % FTs - and barely better for February for example
- is a well below average defender on any advanced stat

Yes, his passing is good and his court vision something that's not been seen on the team for a while. A generational superstar he ain't. Hopefully he continues to improve, but it's a damn long way still to go even to being a league average starting PG.

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't who this Isiah Collier dude is, but he sounds wonderful. Don't know how I've missed him, but look forward to seeing him suit up for the Jazz.

Meanwhile the Isaiah Collier that actually is on the Jazz:
- is ranked 120th among guards in steals
- is ranked 5th in turnovers per36 for qualifying guards
- is ranked 180th among guards for shooting
- he's shooting 24 % from 3 and 62 % FTs - and barely better for February for example
- is a well below average defender on any advanced stat

Yes, his passing is good and his court vision something that's not been seen on the team for a while. A generational superstar he ain't. Hopefully he continues to improve, but it's a damn long way still to go even to being a league average starting PG.

My condolences.

 

[kabenac]

I don't who this Isiah Collier dude is, but he sounds wonderful. Don't know how I've missed him, but look forward to seeing him suit up for the Jazz.

Meanwhile the Isaiah Collier that actually is on the Jazz:
- is ranked 120th among guards in steals
- is ranked 5th in turnovers per36 for qualifying guards
- is ranked 180th among guards for shooting
- he's shooting 24 % from 3 and 62 % FTs - and barely better for February for example
- is a well below average defender on any advanced stat

Yes, his passing is good and his court vision something that's not been seen on the team for a while. A generational superstar he ain't. Hopefully he continues to improve, but it's a damn long way still to go even to being a league average starting PG.

Stockton shot under 20% from three his first three seasons. Karl Malone shot 48% from the line his rookie year. Rookies are supposed to improve and Collier has already improved quite a bit as the season progressed - that's why we're excited.

If I'm not mistaken Collier is 3rd in RC assist to turnover ratio. He shot 45% from the field in February.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

He's got +5000 odds on some betting sites if you want to make the bet. He probably wont get it though because his scoring and scoring efficiency is so low. Even though we all love Collier and what he brings, and his potential, he still had a -4.0 OBPM and terrible scoring efficiency. If he can finish the year averaging 10/8, maybe he has a chance, but that seems like a long shot.

Wells is a legitimate player on a title contender, so he probably wins it in a class that doesnt have any high scoring rookies.

Good stuff! Really long odds and the bookies are seldom wrong! Your analysis checks out. Actually be pretty cool for a guy taken at 39 to nab it - 29 would be cooler though!

 

[Tanktastic]

Stockton shot under 20% from three his first three seasons.

He took 11 threes his first season, in 82 games. 15 threes his second season. Different times. Now? Any guard has to be able to shoot 35 % from 3 and take minimum 4+ per game (ie. 300+ per season, not 11) to be a starter on an average team.

that's why we're excited.

I would say it's more likely people are trying to get excited about anything in this cesspit of a season.

 

[underdog]

I don't who this Isiah Collier dude is, but he sounds wonderful. Don't know how I've missed him, but look forward to seeing him suit up for the Jazz.

Meanwhile the Isaiah Collier that actually is on the Jazz:
- is ranked 120th among guards in steals
- is ranked 5th in turnovers per36 for qualifying guards
- is ranked 180th among guards for shooting
- he's shooting 24 % from 3 and 62 % FTs - and barely better for February for example
- is a well below average defender on any advanced stat

Yes, his passing is good and his court vision something that's not been seen on the team for a while. A generational superstar he ain't. Hopefully he continues to improve, but it's a damn long way still to go even to being a league average starting PG.

What a ridiculous post. You're comparing apples and oranges. If you don't know what a rookie means (and want to evaluate Collier), you should look up the stats for all the past and current NBA players when they had just turned 20 and had played less than five months in the NBA.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

No, he's not the next Stockton. Thanks.

 

[Tanktastic]

What a ridiculous post. You're comparing apples and oranges. If you don't know what a rookie means (and want to evaluate Collier), you should look up the stats for all the past and current NBA players when they had just turned 20 and had played less than five months in the NBA.

I would say comparing Collier to Stockton is a bit like comparing apples to inter-galactic space travel.

Collier does 1½ things well: passing & fast break offense. And yes, any rookie that would be deemed good in all aspects of the game is probably a generational superstar.

However, expecting said rookie to take massive leaps in long-range shooting, mid-range shooting, free throws, overall defense (at 6'2" in today's NBA) and a few other things is quite the stretch.

Did you look up any stats? Because I doubt you did.

Let's take a look at some young star PGs in the league and their rookie seasons:
Trae 19/8 with better shooting
Cunningham 17/6/6 with better shooting
Haliburton 13/5 with much, much better shooting (pretty much his career averages as a rookie)

And not one of those dudes is John Stockton, nowhere near to becoming John Stockton. Hell yeah, they're star players and Collier coming even close to any of them would be a jackpot for the Jazz.

Also, any comparison to Stockton is just silly because of the difference in eras. Stockton was a bench player until age 25. In today's NBA if you're stuck as a back-up PG playing 20 minutes at 25, your most probable routes are: journeyman playing for 8 different teams / Kris Dunn and having to claw your way back as a specialist / Europe.

 

[underdog]

I would say comparing Collier to Stockton is a bit like comparing apples to inter-galactic space travel.

Collier does 1½ things well: passing & fast break offense. And yes, any rookie that would be deemed good in all aspects of the game is probably a generational superstar.

However, expecting said rookie to take massive leaps in long-range shooting, mid-range shooting, free throws, overall defense (at 6'2" in today's NBA) and a few other things is quite the stretch.

Did you look up any stats? Because I doubt you did.

Let's take a look at some young star PGs in the league and their rookie seasons:
Trae 19/8 with better shooting
Cunningham 17/6/6 with better shooting
Haliburton 13/5 with much, much better shooting (pretty much his career averages as a rookie)

And not one of those dudes is John Stockton, nowhere near to becoming John Stockton. Hell yeah, they're star players and Collier coming even close to any of them would be a jackpot for the Jazz.

Also, any comparison to Stockton is just silly because of the difference in eras. Stockton was a bench player until age 25. In today's NBA if you're stuck as a back-up PG playing 20 minutes at 25, your most probable routes are: journeyman playing for 8 different teams / Kris Dunn and having to claw your way back as a specialist / Europe.

Lol. I didn’t compare Collier with anyone. But you compared him with the current NBA players, regardless of how long they’ve played in the NBA. Like with all rookies, this isn’t complicated. What Collier will become depends on how he develops (in his case, mostly his shooting). And we don’t know that yet.

 

[Tanktastic]

Lol. I didn’t compare Collier with anyone. But you compared him with the current NBA players, regardless of how long they’ve played in the NBA.

Did you somehow miss the title of this thread and what this thread is about? Hint: comparing Collier to Stockton.

And dude, you told me to look up stats for other players! I did. Shouldn't I have? When you told me to?

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Tantastik... are you watching the games? His stats were around 341 out of 342 players in the league through the end of December.

His stats January and February have been impressive. February was better than January.

The trend matters because it shows the growth people see when they watch the games.

 

[underdog]

Did you somehow miss the title of this thread and what this thread is about? Hint: comparing Collier to Stockton.

And dude, you told me to look up stats for other players! I did. Shouldn't I have? When you told me to?

Can't you read? I didn't compare Collier to anyone. I just said your post was ridiculous and explained why. I also asked you to look up stats for all the players so you'd understand what a rookie means.

 

[fishonjazz]

Tantastik... are you watching the games? His stats were around 341 out of 342 players in the league through the end of December.

His stats January and February have been impressive. February was better than January.

The trend matters because it shows the growth people see when they watch the games.

Eh, just let him sulk.

 

[Tanktastic]

Tantastik... are you watching the games? His stats were around 341 out of 342 players in the league through the end of December.

Yes, exactly. And the stats backed up what everyone was seeing. But now, after a decent (still shooting awfully) month he's John Stockton?

I also asked you to look up stats for all the players so you'd understand what a rookie means.

You look up the stats for the first 3000 NBA players and once you're done with that I can check out the last 2000.