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Is Isiah Collier finally our new Stockton?

Since Stockton?

Um no.

There was another PG we had who played in the mid 2000s who was an incredible playmaker. This guy could create, pass, and score. Hes still one of the most entertaining players to watch highlights of because the offense he helped lead was beautiful. If collier ends up being half the player he was then we got a steal.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Deron wasn't as much of a playmaker, pass first mentality as Collier. Loved De'ron but the unselfish play of Collier is impressive and fun to watch.
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He is currently 14th all-time in career assists per game at 8.1. He was top 5 in the NBA in assists per game in 7 different seasons.

I'm still working on liking Deron again, but man, let's not pretend he wasn't a great playmaker.
 
JimLes said:
He is currently 14th all-time in career assists per game at 8.1. He was top 5 in the NBA in assists per game in 7 different seasons.

I'm still working on liking Deron again, but man, let's not pretend he wasn't a great playmaker.
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I am not saying Deron wasn't a really great player. But I define PLAYMAKER as someone who is actively setting up the easiest play.

Deron could shoot. Deron could drive. And Deron ran plays. He got good at the pick and roll with Boozer. He also had Memo shooting threes. All great stuff. Plenty of assists. Great fun watching that squad.

But he wasn't the PLAYMAKER that Stockton was. That Chris Paul was. Steve Nash. The constant setup men of the league. Often referred to as true point guards.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
I am not saying Deron wasn't a really great player. But I define PLAYMAKER as someone who is actively setting up the easiest play.

Deron could shoot. Deron could drive. And Deron ran plays. He got good at the pick and roll with Boozer. He also had Memo shooting threes. All great stuff. Plenty of assists. Great fun watching that squad.

But he wasn't the PLAYMAKER that Stockton was. That Chris Paul was. Steve Nash. The constant setup men of the league. Often referred to as true point guards.
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Dwill was the same level playmaker as those players in his prime. He just had a pretty short-lived prime.

Right now Collier is a guard who cant score so he has to look to pass most of the time. Until he matures and we get a full picture of what he can do, we cant compare him to all-time greats who always had the option of scoring or playmaking, and choosing the right option most of the time.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
I am not saying Deron wasn't a really great player. But I define PLAYMAKER as someone who is actively setting up the easiest play.

Deron could shoot. Deron could drive. And Deron ran plays. He got good at the pick and roll with Boozer. He also had Memo shooting threes. All great stuff. Plenty of assists. Great fun watching that squad.

But he wasn't the PLAYMAKER that Stockton was. That Chris Paul was. Steve Nash. The constant setup men of the league. Often referred to as true point guards.
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Lol

Paul and Nash were playmakers but not Deron? Was Jason Kidd a playmaker? Steph Curry? Luka? Is Mike Conley a playmaker? Collier is a playmaker but not Deron?

I’m just trying to figure out what you think a playmaker is. Because Deron was arguably the best point guard in the league in his prime. It was a coin flip between he and Paul, as to who was the best PG in those mid and early 2000s-2010s.

Deron was lethal in the pick and roll/pop, which is ironically what made Stockton such a good playmaker. So I really don’t understand why Stockton is considered a top playmaker for you and not Deron.
 
The "true" PG of the past only works on loaded teams where you have a bunch of players who are better off-ball and you just need a guy to make passes. Those dont really exist anymore as elite players. Last one was probably Rondo, and before that, Stockton.

The "true" PG in today's game is the player who can score and pass, but can do both at equal capacities and has the ability to choose the right option at a high rate. That was Dwill/Nash/Paul in the past, and now is players like Lebron/Harden/Luka/Young/Cunningham/Haliburton/Jokic
 
I literally just defined what I think a playmaker is. Keyonte has been getting lots of assists lately but he is not my definition of a playmaker.

Some point guards initiate the offense but they arent asked to playmake. Perhaps they pass the ball to a player on the wing who scores. They get an assist. Neat. Tony parker has +7000 career assists but he initiated the offense. Many times that was a very simple pass to Tim Duncan who scored very efficiently. I watched a TON of Spurs ball back in the day.

Others show Mastery of how to move players out of their position through their play. Dragging defenders out of position to setup 2 v 1s or a mismatch or an easy bucket. The masterclass playmaker constantly works as a setup man. Stockton was the epitome of this. Jokic is a playmaker.

I enjoy watching playmaking. Deron was not a master.
 
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The Thriller said:
Since Stockton?

Um no.

There was another PG we had who played in the mid 2000s who was an incredible playmaker. This guy could create, pass, and score. Hes still one of the most entertaining players to watch highlights of because the offense he helped lead was beautiful. If collier ends up being half the player he was then we got a steal.
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But was Stockton the scorer Deron was?

They’re just not similar players imo.

I personally think Collier is more similar to Stockton than Deron was (if you disregard skin colour, build, look, etc).
 
And even by your definition, Collier is not a "playmaker". He is not out there making easy plays. He's taking and making high risk passes constantly.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And even by your definition, Collier is not a "playmaker". He is not out there making easy plays. He's taking and making high risk passes constantly.
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Disagree. Collier is a playmaker. And he will get better at it. Obviously his focus will be on improving his shooting.
 
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