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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

Red said:
I’m still slack jawed at the inability to see the obvious. It’s an amazing thing to live through, this moment.

www.theatlantic.com

The Real Reason Trump Berated Zelensky

He simply likes Vladimir Putin better.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

Of the many bizarre and uncomfortable moments during today’s Oval Office meeting between Donald Trump, J. D. Vance, and Volodymyr Zelensky—during which Trump finally shattered the American alliance with Ukraine—one was particularly revealing: What, a reporter asked, would happen if the cease-fire Trump is trying to negotiate were to be violated by Russia? “What if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now?” Trump spat back, as if Russia violating a neighbor’s sovereignty were the wildest and most unlikely possibility, rather than a frequently recurring event.

Then Trump explained just why he deemed such an event so unlikely. “They respect me,” he thundered. “Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt, where they used him and Russia. Russia, Russia, Russia, you ever hear of that deal? … It was a phony Democrat scam. He had to go through it. And he did go through it.”

Trump seems to genuinely feel that he and Vladimir Putin forged a personal bond through the shared trauma of being persecuted by the Democratic Party. Trump is known for his cold-eyed, transactional approach, and yet here he was, displaying affection and loyalty. (At another point, Trump complained that Zelensky has “tremendous hatred” toward Putin and insisted, “It’s very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate.”) He was not explaining why a deal with Russia would advance America’s interests, or why honoring it would advance Russia’s. He was defending Russia’s integrity by vouching for Putin’s character.

Might Zelensky have gotten a different outcome by taking Trump’s abuse and stream of lies with more self-abasement? Sure, it’s possible; if you reason backwards from a bad outcome, any different strategy is almost axiomatically smarter. Zelensky had no good options at the White House. He walked into an ambush with a president who empathizes with the dictator who wants to seize Ukraine’s territory. Everyone who spent years warning about Trump’s unseemly affinity for Putin had exactly this kind of disastrous outcome in mind.
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Great post
 
Sardines said:
It's like Trump fart sniffers don't understand that the U.S. has WANTED to be the big spender on military. The U.S. strove to be the world's only super power and we have done that. Now we're saying, nah, we need dozens of competitors, where if enough of them get together they could actually take us on. We used to exist in a world where we made up 70% of NATO military spending, meaning NATO gave us a boost of a massive 30% but in absolutely no way could they stand up against us. The U.S. with NATO (soldiers, equipment, money, geography, logistics, technology, etc.) could have taken on Russia and China at the same time with little fuss. Even if India and Brazil wanted to get frisky at the same time we could have handled it.

We just asked the world to challenge us, and it looks like they are going to give it a shot.

So the rest of NATO spends more. Does that mean now the U.S. gets to spend less? I think it means we also have to spend more. We're not going to let any nation or any small group of nations have any advantage over us, even if those nations are the UK, Germany, and France. When we were clearly out front and at the same time assuring the world we would stand up for democracy anywhere and everywhere (we never really did that, but that was the pitch anyway) the world was kind of happy to let us do it. Like imagine if EU military spending, Chinese military spending, Russian military spending, Indian military spending, Brazil and other South American nations increase military spending, Japan now feels like they have to spend more, Australia will spend more, and the U.S. will not want to give an edge in any category so we'll spend lots lots more because we will have lots lots more competition.

With the reality of warfighting changing as we are seeing in Ukraine, specialization or particularly useful innovation in drone technology might be the biggest deciding factor in a potential WWIII. Which nation is going to make that key innovation and exploit it before anyone else can? It might not be the U.S..
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We're already in a global arms race. The real power of the US is logistics, no other country has the same capacity to air lift and supply troops in the field and of course air power.

One of the things that the Ukrainians have benefited from massively is infantry training in the UK, as much as people talk of the Royal Navy being the back bone of their empire, the British army, historically small has always punched well above its weight. I think Ukraine has been receiving training from the UK since 2017?
 
Al-O-Meter said:
All US military aid to Ukraine has been halted. It appears the lefties in this forum are going to need Europe to come through to feed their desired forever war.
Click to expand...
You know, I know, we all know that nobody desires a forever war. You also know, full well, that you will back Putin to the hilt if it means going up the “lefties” rear ends. Even if it means embracing the abandonment of our ideal of standing for the defence of human freedom in the world. I understand isolationism, it’s a desire of many. You’re not a traitor, cheap talk alone is not treason. But you have no problem expressing your hatred of human freedom. You have no problem supporting Putin, who, I’m sure you also know, has no desire for peace with Ukraine at all. No matter, if you can display your support for Trump’s dangerous beliefs, if you can show your disgust with every ideal we ever thought we stood for, either because that is you, or because it’s just trolling, you’ve made that your mission.

Only you can answer why you would be willing to display disgust with America’s support for freedom loving people, and their courageous leader, on this forum. You really should put your mind to better use, not use it to support Putin, and trash someone, Zelenskyy, who should be seen as a hero by freedom loving people everywhere.

Understand, by trolling about the abandonment of Americas support for freedom fighting people, you do demonstrate what a “hateful of your own country’s founding ideals” you really are. Or are perfectly willing to portray yourself as. At a time when Americans of different stripes are treating each other as “the bad guys”, you take the side of the #1 enemy of freedom.

You’re the smartest troll on this forum. Yeah, that’s right, and you put the work in to support your views. But I believe you also KNOW better. Which only makes what you are doing all the more disgusting. I don’t know if you stand with freedom hating dictators everywhere. But you’re fine with the one in our Oval Office trashing all our friends, on a daily basis for one thing or another, as our enemies, and elevating Putin as a man we can trust. He wants peace. He has great respect and admiration for Trump. He wants no peace, and he can’t believe his luck with Trump. IF it is just luck….


View: https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1896613666394353823



“In case you somehow missed the big news last night, the White House announced Trump is pausing all military aid to Ukraine pending a review — instantly cutting off more than $1 billion of arms and ammunition headed for the front line. It’s a huge, huge win for Russian President Vladimir Putin, and represents the most significant moment so far in Trump’s overhaul of America’s stance on the war in Europe. The move is clearly designed to force Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — who fell out with Trump so spectacularly last Friday — to bend to the White House’s will.

Spelling it out: “President Trump has been clear that he is focused on peace,” a White House official told POLITICO’s Eli Stokolls last night. “We need our partners to be committed to that goal as well. We are pausing and reviewing our aid to ensure that it is contributing to a solution.” In other words: Zelenskyy needs to get on board with Trump’s approach, or Ukrainian guns will soon be running short of ammo. Under this president more than most, ego-fueled tiffs between posturing blokes have real-world consequences for us all.

GOP mutterings: “Too bad Iran, North Korea and China are not pausing theirmilitary aid and economic support,” Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.) told Eli. “There is an invader and a victim, there is a democracy and a dictatorship, there is a country who wants to be part of the West and one who hates the West. We should be unambiguously for the good side.” Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) added: “I do not think we should be pausing our efforts. It’s the Ukrainians who are shedding blood.”
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The intellectual heart of MAGA. These are the people who will throw everything away.


View: https://x.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1895685637875122634




THIS:


View: https://x.com/addict_reality/status/1895563711328502024
 
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Red said:
Even if it means embracing the abandonment of our ideal of standing for the defence of human freedom in the world.
Click to expand...
This line is the core of why we do not see eye-to-eye on this issue.

  1. We aren't the human freedom police force
  2. Ukraine isn't a bastion of human freedom

Ukraine is the enemy of our enemy. Putin is our enemy. I do not back our enemy and I never have. I have backed Ukraine strongly for 3 years with a post history to prove it. Here in 2025, the reality is that Ukraine has won. Russia is critically crippled, possibly mortally crippled, and they know it. Ukraine, a nation only 1/7th of Russia's size, has against all odds won a war for their continued existence. Ukraine has won. Some land has been lost and too many are dead, but Ukraine won. They gave proof through the night that their flag was still there.

What I support is Ukrainians being able to hold their head high as a champions who won their right to be Ukraine the nation, basking in the admiration of the world for the adversity they overcame. Zelensky is holding those events hostage now, and it isn't backing the vile Putin to see the obvious.
 
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www.mirror.co.uk

Keir Starmer breaks silence on JD Vance comments attacking UK soldiers

Donald Trump's sidekick JD Vance is facing fury from British MPs and former ministers after calling the UK as 'some random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 years'
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk

Keir Starmer has defended British troops who have fought in recent decades after Donald Trump's sidekick JD Vance suggested the UK was "some random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 years".

MPs and former ministers branded the US Vice President a "clown" and accused him of forgetting about the UK fighting alongside the US in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent decades. After fierce criticism Mr Vance claimed he was not talking about the UK and said such accusations were "absurdly dishonest".

Keir Starmer's official spokesman declined to characterise Mr Vance's comments as disrespectful when asked. But he said: "The PM and I think the whole country is full of admiration for all British troops who have served for instance in Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom have lost their lives in the process and fought obviously alongside allies including the United States.

"We're very clear that their courage and bravery has helped ensure global security, defend our values, defend our national interest. Our focus is once again how we protect our national interests and global security by progressing the discussions to secure a lasting peace in Ukraine." Asked whether JD Vance was disrespectful, the spokesman repeated the PM's admiration for British troops serving in armed conflicts.

www.dailymail.co.uk

UK a 'random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 years' - JD Vance

The US Vice President desperately attempted to clarify his comments after he sparked a furious backlash among military veterans and MPs from all parties.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
apnews.com

Polish democracy hero Wałęsa says Trump's treatment of Zelenskyy filled him with 'horror'

Poland’s democracy hero Lech Wałęsa and 38 other former political prisoners in Poland have told President Donald Trump that his treatment of Ukraine’s president at the Oval Office last week filled them “with horror and distaste.”
apnews.com apnews.com


Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.

Your Excellency, Mr. President,

We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.

We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.

Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.

The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.

We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.

Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.

We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.

Signed,

Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland
 
This is a move in the right direction.


View: https://x.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1896948147085049916


The full tweet reads:

I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace.

None of us wants an endless war. Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under President Trump’s strong leadership to get a peace that lasts.

We are ready to work fast to end the war, and the first stages could be the release of prisoners and truce in the sky — ban on missiles, long-ranged drones, bombs on energy and other civilian infrastructure — and truce in the sea immediately, if Russia will do the same. Then we want to move very fast through all next stages and to work with the US to agree a strong final deal.

We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins. We are grateful for this.

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.
 
Red said:
You know, I know, we all know that nobody desires a forever war. You also know, full well, that you will back Putin to the hilt if it means going up the “lefties” rear ends. Even if it means embracing the abandonment of our ideal of standing for the defence of human freedom in the world. I understand isolationism, it’s a desire of many. You’re not a traitor, cheap talk alone is not treason. But you have no problem expressing your hatred of human freedom. You have no problem supporting Putin, who, I’m sure you also know, has no desire for peace with Ukraine at all. No matter, if you can display your support for Trump’s dangerous beliefs, if you can show your disgust with every ideal we ever thought we stood for, either because that is you, or because it’s just trolling, you’ve made that your mission.

Only you can answer why you would be willing to display disgust with America’s support for freedom loving people, and their courageous leader, on this forum. You really should put your mind to better use, not use it to support Putin, and trash someone, Zelenskyy, who should be seen as a hero by freedom loving people everywhere.

Understand, by trolling about the abandonment of Americas support for freedom fighting people, you do demonstrate what a “hateful of your own country’s founding ideals” you really are. Or are perfectly willing to portray yourself as. At a time when Americans of different stripes are treating each other as “the bad guys”, you take the side of the #1 enemy of freedom.

You’re the smartest troll on this forum. Yeah, that’s right, and you put the work in to support your views. But I believe you also KNOW better. Which only makes what you are doing all the more disgusting. I don’t know if you stand with freedom hating dictators everywhere. But you’re fine with the one in our Oval Office trashing all our friends, on a daily basis for one thing or another, as our enemies, and elevating Putin as a man we can trust. He wants peace. He has great respect and admiration for Trump. He wants no peace, and he can’t believe his luck with Trump. IF it is just luck….


View: https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1896613666394353823



“In case you somehow missed the big news last night, the White House announced Trump is pausing all military aid to Ukraine pending a review — instantly cutting off more than $1 billion of arms and ammunition headed for the front line. It’s a huge, huge win for Russian President Vladimir Putin, and represents the most significant moment so far in Trump’s overhaul of America’s stance on the war in Europe. The move is clearly designed to force Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — who fell out with Trump so spectacularly last Friday — to bend to the White House’s will.

Spelling it out: “President Trump has been clear that he is focused on peace,” a White House official told POLITICO’s Eli Stokolls last night. “We need our partners to be committed to that goal as well. We are pausing and reviewing our aid to ensure that it is contributing to a solution.” In other words: Zelenskyy needs to get on board with Trump’s approach, or Ukrainian guns will soon be running short of ammo. Under this president more than most, ego-fueled tiffs between posturing blokes have real-world consequences for us all.

GOP mutterings: “Too bad Iran, North Korea and China are not pausing theirmilitary aid and economic support,” Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.) told Eli. “There is an invader and a victim, there is a democracy and a dictatorship, there is a country who wants to be part of the West and one who hates the West. We should be unambiguously for the good side.” Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) added: “I do not think we should be pausing our efforts. It’s the Ukrainians who are shedding blood.”
————————————————————————
The intellectual heart of MAGA. These are the people who will throw everything away.


View: https://x.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1895685637875122634




THIS:


View: https://x.com/addict_reality/status/1895563711328502024
Click to expand...

Have you donated to Ukraine?
 
Al-O-Meter said:
We aren't the human freedom police force
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I know. Military bases the world over. Trump prefers Strongman rule. He prefers an understanding involving acknowledging that the world’s strongest Strongmen have spheres of influence. America’s sphere includes Canada, Greenland, Panama. Putin and Russia’s sphere of influence includes Europe, including Ukraine, obviously.

I never liked our role of the world’s policeman. We’ve often backed some real nasty guys and governments, esp. in Central and South America. And it got us into Vietnam with the “domino theory” of spreading communism. That remains the most tumultuous domestic era of my own lifetime. That’s when I first learned, “hey, wait a second here, why are we wearing the black hats”? So yeah.

But I cannot agree with standing shoulder to shoulder with Putin, and telling our friends to take a hike, insulting our friends and allies. I guess America First=America Alone, watching over our sphere. No point supporting freedom in a world where the other Strongmen don’t believe in human freedom at all. And I don’t think Trump believes in freedom, either. Free speech? Just don’t say Gulf of Mexico. Free speech? If you are Republican and disagree in public, he’ll primary you. Trump does not believe in freedom of thought at all.

IMG_5655.webp



So, at times our support can seem misdirected, depending on how one sees the world, and what the world needs now.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg&pp=ygUnZGlvbm5lIHdhcndpY2sgd2hhdCB0aGUgd29ybGQgbmVlZHMgbm93
 
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Al-O-Meter said:
All US military aid to Ukraine has been halted. It appears the lefties in this forum are going to need Europe to come through to feed their desired forever war.


View attachment 18152
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Is that really what it appears to be? Cause you appear to be perfectly aligning with Russian interests. I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt so far….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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