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Utah Jazz fined 100,000 for violating league participation policy

Its public shaming and appeasing other teams who obviously complained. It just so happens that the other teams we are tanking against don't have a player that fits the league criteria as a star outside of Scotty Barnes. We did push pretty far and if we do tank next year we really just need to trade the players rather than sitting them like this. Its not fair to them and their earnings. Lauri we paid so its whatevs but the league is telling us we can't do that with Lauri now... so apparently we have to do a more ethical version of fraud.

Yeah, I'm sure Walker and the Jazz have already agreed to an extension, but the Jazz really need to trade Sexton and Collins. This is going to be a contract year for their last major NBA contract and you shouldn't have them fake injuries.
 
So where does the 100K go? I attended that game. Do I get a refund? No complaints, I got a great seat cheap because they were tanking (the Wiz in perpetuity)
 
Do you think we do something similar next year if we don't get Flagg?
That seems to be the consensus. Even if we DO get Flagg
 
Its public shaming and appeasing other teams who obviously complained. It just so happens that the other teams we are tanking against don't have a player that fits the league criteria as a star outside of Scotty Barnes. We did push pretty far and if we do tank next year we really just need to trade the players rather than sitting them like this. Its not fair to them and their earnings. Lauri we paid so its whatevs but the league is telling us we can't do that with Lauri now... so apparently we have to do a more ethical version of fraud.
I literally came here today with this same line of thought. Tanking this way next season just isnt feasible.

The kids are gonna be better collectively, unless if we botch this next draft and force minutes to guys who are worse than the rooks this year.

We dont even know what we have in Hendricks and our other top 10 pick Cody cant be worse next year (can he?). We should hope Key makes a year 3 leap also. Flip and Collier have paid some dues and arent rookies anymore.
 
I literally came here today with this same line of thought. Tanking this way next season just isnt feasible.

The kids are gonna be better collectively, unless if we botch this next draft and force minutes to guys who are worse than the rooks this year.

We dont even know what we have in Hendricks and our other top 10 pick Cody cant be worse next year (can he?). We should hope Key makes a year 3 leap also. Flip and Collier have paid some dues and arent rookies anymore.
Yeah, if you're intending to tank until you get THE GUY, keeping it up long enough can be pretty difficult -- especially when building on years of not-terrible draft hauls.

Maybe we're willing to keep recycling until we get the prize (like Philly did with Michael Carter-Williams), but that's even more distasteful and likely to lead to even more reduced fan interest in the meantime.

Oh, to have the luck of the Spurs ...
 
I don't understand the whining in this thread. Yeah, sitting your players and losing games on purpose goes against the core principles of what sport is about. And yes, other teams tank too and every year they push the envelope a bit further. This year it is the Jazz who are leading the charge of cheating and pushing tanking to new heights: sitting their 6 best players against the Wizards was very blatant and pretty unprecedented. When you live the life of a crook an occasional trip to jail is to be expected as part of the business.
 
Bad backs are not to by taken lightly. Should probably shut him down for the season
Serious question: is having back spasms a problem that can me indicated/monitored by medical tests, or is it one of those conditions that only the individual experiencing it will be able to judge?
 
Serious question: is having back spasms a problem that can me indicated/monitored by medical tests, or is it one of those conditions that only the individual experiencing it will be able to judge?
I don't have the answer.
Good question though
 
The conspiracy theories won't prevent it. Its literally just math. The fine was justified as it fits the leagues parameters and the other stuff doesn't. There is too much for the league to lose and no real beneficiary to pushing a guy to one market or another. The risk to reward for one party to rig a random lottery is just not there.
Alright, I've had this post and I guess this is just the best place to put it. It gets really touchy when we start talking about things that approximate conspiracy. It's understandable. My working theory (broader than basketball) is that there are these developmental stages we pass through and we view maturity as reaching a stage of hyper-rationality. One example being a child who is afraid of ghosts or monsters in the house, hears rustling at night, thinks they hear whispers, etc., and has to be reassured by parents that there's no ghost, no monster, no whatever. Part of a maturation stage of growing up is identifying with the stability of those more mature than us, forsaking our childish impulses and fantastical beliefs and fears, and embracing a form of rationality that emerges almost as a compensation. Now everything has a reasonable, rational explanation. While we achieve this significant shift in world view, we view it as development when it's partially that but largely just pendulum swinging. Rightfully so, we look at those less sophisticated and see stupid arguments and feel almost compelled to put some distance between us and them. After all, there is no shortage of ridiculously stupid things you'll read, especially on comments of articles where the commenters clearly have no basis in any fact or reality. Naturally, we don't want lumped in with that, and here we are (this isn't directed at you, it's a cultural thing):

1742512321065.png

A friend tells us about some unexplained phenomenon that happened at their house at night, attributing it to some kind of paranormal issue. Not to be sucked into pointless drivel, our appetite is whet for rational explanation. It's not sufficient to say, "Gee, that's interesting. I don't have an explanation for that. I'm not inclined to believe it was what you're saying but I don't have an answer." Instead, we insist on having an explanation -- "It was the heater kicking on!!", "It was your neighbor taking out the trash!!", etc., etc. Agnosticism, from this view, is tantamount to belief. It is not enough to simply be a non-believer. One must be actively anti-belief. Or so we feel, lest we find ourselves in the condition of what we view the Neanderthal on the left of the meme. But, alas, here we really are:

1742512675753.png

My point is to say this: the league is currently struggling with a product quality problem, specifically in relation to tanking. This isn't just a fringe discussion that doesn't really affect the product or its consumption, appearing only in hyper-focused internet discussion forums, but instead very commonly referenced, seen, and understood even from very public and mainstream sports sources. Viewership has not rebounded post-COVID. Despite that, the league continues to, presumably, make more money each year, due to a myriad of issues. But the tanking issue is a legitimate, tangible threat to the product as the culture surrounding this has changed so drastically over the past 20 years. The league has enough self-interest and self-awareness to foresee consequences to certain actions they take 4, 5, or 6 steps father down the road. If the league issues a fine to a team regarding tanking, they do so knowing that said team could indeed end up winning the lottery. That's a disaster, especially given how prominently discussion surrounding tanking compromising the product is, and how much the focus on the league shifts to all of these teams engaging in certain acts to land a top pick (but not just referencing those acts, referencing specifically where the league has formally acknowledged such issues via fine) and how this whole anti-competitive process is a significant stain on the league. If the league finds themselves in a situation where they issued a fine to a team regarding tanking, and that team lands the #1 pick, the fallout from that would be such that it would have been better to not fine said team to begin with. That's not something the league isn't aware of. Do I believe that the league has a meeting before each season detailing story lines like professional wrestling, or that Adam Silver lays in bed at night on his phone coming up with the draft order? No. But can there sometimes be safeguards, much like bowling bumper lanes, that can exist to prevent certain events that can be problematic to the success and vitality of the league?

A better way to put this: our chances of landing 5th or lower are more than three times higher than our chance of landing #1. There is nothing nefarious about that and it's nearly impossible to make an argument otherwise. Same with anyone else. I haven't kept up with any of the other investigations and if any other teams ended up receiving formal penalties. But, if there are, I'd watch what happens with any of those teams. If all teams issued formal penalties find themselves outside the top 4, this is still a very likely outcome, so likely that anyone would point to the Neanderthal any time that argument is raised. But, should that be the case, the message will be clear and congratulations, the league has just definitely solved the tanking issue. At least at the top half of the draft. It may encourage it from the back half, but perhaps the play-in safeguards against that.
 
Alright, I've had this post and I guess this is just the best place to put it. It gets really touchy when we start talking about things that approximate conspiracy. It's understandable. My working theory (broader than basketball) is that there are these developmental stages we pass through and we view maturity as reaching a stage of hyper-rationality. One example being a child who is afraid of ghosts or monsters in the house, hears rustling at night, thinks they hear whispers, etc., and has to be reassured by parents that there's no ghost, no monster, no whatever. Part of a maturation stage of growing up is identifying with the stability of those more mature than us, forsaking our childish impulses and fantastical beliefs and fears, and embracing a form of rationality that emerges almost as a compensation. Now everything has a reasonable, rational explanation. While we achieve this significant shift in world view, we view it as development when it's partially that but largely just pendulum swinging. Rightfully so, we look at those less sophisticated and see stupid arguments and feel almost compelled to put some distance between us and them. After all, there is no shortage of ridiculously stupid things you'll read, especially on comments of articles where the commenters clearly have no basis in any fact or reality. Naturally, we don't want lumped in with that, and here we are (this isn't directed at you, it's a cultural thing):

View attachment 18346

A friend tells us about some unexplained phenomenon that happened at their house at night, attributing it to some kind of paranormal issue. Not to be sucked into pointless drivel, our appetite is whet for rational explanation. It's not sufficient to say, "Gee, that's interesting. I don't have an explanation for that. I'm not inclined to believe it was what you're saying but I don't have an answer." Instead, we insist on having an explanation -- "It was the heater kicking on!!", "It was your neighbor taking out the trash!!", etc., etc. Agnosticism, from this view, is tantamount to belief. It is not enough to simply be a non-believer. One must be actively anti-belief. Or so we feel, lest we find ourselves in the condition of what we view the Neanderthal on the left of the meme. But, alas, here we really are:

View attachment 18347

My point is to say this: the league is currently struggling with a product quality problem, specifically in relation to tanking. This isn't just a fringe discussion that doesn't really affect the product or its consumption, appearing only in hyper-focused internet discussion forums, but instead very commonly referenced, seen, and understood even from very public and mainstream sports sources. Viewership has not rebounded post-COVID. Despite that, the league continues to, presumably, make more money each year, due to a myriad of issues. But the tanking issue is a legitimate, tangible threat to the product as the culture surrounding this has changed so drastically over the past 20 years. The league has enough self-interest and self-awareness to foresee consequences to certain actions they take 4, 5, or 6 steps father down the road. If the league issues a fine to a team regarding tanking, they do so knowing that said team could indeed end up winning the lottery. That's a disaster, especially given how prominently discussion surrounding tanking compromising the product is, and how much the focus on the league shifts to all of these teams engaging in certain acts to land a top pick (but not just referencing those acts, referencing specifically where the league has formally acknowledged such issues via fine) and how this whole anti-competitive process is a significant stain on the league. If the league finds themselves in a situation where they issued a fine to a team regarding tanking, and that team lands the #1 pick, the fallout from that would be such that it would have been better to not fine said team to begin with. That's not something the league isn't aware of. Do I believe that the league has a meeting before each season detailing story lines like professional wrestling, or that Adam Silver lays in bed at night on his phone coming up with the draft order? No. But can there sometimes be safeguards, much like bowling bumper lanes, that can exist to prevent certain events that can be problematic to the success and vitality of the league?

A better way to put this: our chances of landing 5th or lower are more than three times higher than our chance of landing #1. There is nothing nefarious about that and it's nearly impossible to make an argument otherwise. Same with anyone else. I haven't kept up with any of the other investigations and if any other teams ended up receiving formal penalties. But, if there are, I'd watch what happens with any of those teams. If all teams issued formal penalties find themselves outside the top 4, this is still a very likely outcome, so likely that anyone would point to the Neanderthal any time that argument is raised. But, should that be the case, the message will be clear and congratulations, the league has just definitely solved the tanking issue. At least at the top half of the draft. It may encourage it from the back half, but perhaps the play-in safeguards against that.

You come across as very stupid and with literally no memory of even recent NBA history.

The league was furious at the 76ers winning the 2016 lottery after going 10-72 and talking openly about tanking. They responded by flattening the lottery odds and blackballing Hinkie from the league.

If the Jazz win the lottery this year, I could see Zanik, Ainge, or Hardy getting blackballed from the league and more anti-tanking measures being put in. This will be done after the fact though.

The Jazz will probably avoid punishment because the 76ers were a relevant franchise and the Jazz are not. But there is a chance Hardy and Ainge get forced out of the league I guess.

You could go deeper into the conspiracy nonsense by saying that the 76ers were only allowed to win the 2016 lottery because they forced Hinkie to resign and blackballed him, but then there's the pretty simple solution of blackballing Hardy and Ainge for the Jazz then, idk. It's not like either guy would be remotely a loss for the franchise.
 
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You come across as very stupid and with literally no memory of even recent NBA history.
Thank you.

I'm talking about making an official stand (via public formal discipline/fine) and then having said team win. And even if we were to say those others count as "public reprimands" then it's a backdrop context that shows pushing the envelop eventually results in an example being set.
 
Thank you.

I'm talking about making an official stand (via public formal discipline/fine) and then having said team win. And even if we were to say those others count as "public reprimands" then it's a backdrop context that shows pushing the envelop eventually results in an example being set.

Cool, so, if they did anything, it would just be blackballing Ainge and Hardy from the league as we actually have a historical precedent for this.

I really don't know how much the league cares though as the Jazz are completely irrelevant.
 
Cool, so, if they did anything, it would just be blackballing Ainge and Hardy from the league as we actually have a historical precedent for this.

I really don't know how much the league cares though as the Jazz are completely irrelevant.
I think my point was missed. I don't think the league cares about the Jazz. It isn't really even about the Jazz. The Jazz are expendable, which is why they can be the sacrificial pawn to move a necessary process further along. I mentioned this a week or two ago that it was cool for retired players to do a sign-and-trade to be salary ballast (Keith Van Horn for Dallas, Aaron McKie for the Lakers), but when the Jazz get involved trying to use retired Greg Ostertag, it gets nixed. When the league makes a "big push" to prevent flopping, you get guys like Reggie Evans being fined. I had said that we'd be the perfect team to make an example of. Quite literally the next day we got fined. Blackballing Ainge and Hardy isn't really the "punishment" I'm talking about. I'm saying to watch if any other team gets fined this year, then see if any of said fined teams are in the top 4. That's what I'm saying. That's the punishment that matter. And it's the punishment that fixes things.

Nobody cares about Ainge and Hardy.
 
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