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Why we need to Trade Jefferson through February 6th (Stats)

C

Cope

Well-Known Member
We all know Defensively the Black Hole is a Bum... with that being said he is the 'staple' of our offense down low right? Please take a look at the numbers below. I consider rebounding both a defensive and offensive skill. Effective FG% is a telling tale as well.

As this ship continues to go down hill like many of us predicted over the next 2 months we need to decide on giving the young guys playing time and developing them or sticking with the 'Vets' to try and win games. I think Black Hole's value is probably higher now than it will be when we hit this skid in Feb/March. I'm not wanting this to be a "What can we get for Jeffy" thread as there are enough of those around but simply posting facts through 22 Games.


Production On Court/Off Court Simple
Jefferson +3.7
Kanter +5.0
Favors +2.3

Jefferson
33.0 Minutes per Game
8.0 - 16.8 Field Goals per Game - 47.6% (1 Attempt per 1.96 Minutes on the Floor - 65% Jump Shots)
46.9 EFG%
3.6 Free Throw Attempts per Game (1 per 9.16 Minutes on the Floor)
9.7% Draw Foul Rate
9.0 Rebounds per Game (1 per 3.66 Minutes on the Floor)
Rebounding Player Rating 29.0

Kanter
14.4 Minutes per Game
1.9 - 4.0 Field Goals per Game - 47.3% (1 Attempt per 3.6 Minutes on the Floor)
50.0% EFG%
1.8 Free Throw Attemps per Game (1 per every 8 Minutes on the Floor)
18.1% Draw Foul Rate
4.9 Rebounds per Game (1 per 2.94 Minutes on the Floor)
Rebounding Player Rating 36.3


Favors
21.0 Minutes per Game
3.1 - 6.4 Field Goals per Game - 48.2% (1 Attempt per 3.28 Minutes on the Floor)
49.5% EFG%
2.8 Free Throw Attemps per Game (1 per 7.5 Minutes on the Floor)
17.7% Draw Foul Rate
5.8 Rebounds per Game (1 per 3.62 Minutes on the Floor)
Rebounding Player Rating 31.3



The defense we all know changes drastically with the Young guys on the court as well. Either A) Increase Playing time for the young guys or B) Involve Black Hole in a Trade that gets us a Wing and a back up big and allow us to play a 3 man rotation the majority of the time at the 4 and 5.

I never looked closely at the numbers and my dislike a Jefferson is mainly due to what I see on the court but this backs it up quite a bit in my opinion. You can say that Jefferson plays against starters and the youngs against back ups, but we just played a bunch of back ups last night and got our butts kicked, thus the reason for the tread.

Thoughts?
 
Awesome post. Agree withyou 100%. I do like Jefferson, but he is not a good fit for our team and is certainly not part of the future. If its not one thing its the other. A four rebound performace this game, an 40% chuck fest the next. I would rather we see what we have in our young guys and let the team of the future begin gelling. Jefferson is a good player and will have value. He is not a number one, shoot, may not be a number two option. But he can be a 3rd option on a contender. We just have no use for him.
 
The problem with trading Jefferson is has a skill that no one else on the team has shown- the ability to get a decent shot against anyone in the league.

Jefferson isn't perfect but in crunch time Millsap struggles with certain matchups.

Harris has no confidence. Hayward struggles to finish at the rim.

Our next best offensive creator is CJ Miles.

I believe trading Jefferson might be the right move for our future. But trading him would probably screw our present.
 
Qman said:
The problem with trading Jefferson is has a skill that no one else on the team has shown- the ability to get a decent shot against anyone in the league.

Jefferson isn't perfect but in crunch time Millsap struggles with certain matchups.

Harris has no confidence. Hayward struggles to finish at the rim.

Our next best offensive creator is CJ Miles.

I believe trading Jefferson might be the right move for our future. But trading him would probably screw our present.
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Agree with this as well but we need to be realistic. Are the Jazz contenders? 100% no. We need to say screw our present and begin our future. We have a lot of promising pieces. Add two more lotto picks and send Jefferson and Harris out and I think we can finally start to make the steps towards greatness. OKC (SEA) traded Ray Allen for Jeff Green. Do you think Durrant would have gotten to his level as quickly as he did with Ray taking all the shots? We need to see what we have and move forward.
 
Moving AJ turns Utah's one strength into a weakness. Namely, the depth up front. Something significant has to come back to make up for that, it's the main reason the Jazz have won games.

The team doesn't improve by banishing players, no matter how much some fans relish hating on them.

Edit: I won't bother but surely it would not be difficult to look up the crappy stats of any of our guards or wings and make the exact same case only stronger. Jefferson and Millsap are carrying this team, the problem is G play.
 
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None of our bigs are "the problem."

We need some shooters and a starting pg. Those are the issues.

Jefferson, Millsap, Kanter, and Favors have been pluses.

Our SFs, SGs, and everyone other than Earl and Tinsley @ point, have been inconsistent.
 
Brown Notes said:
Moving AJ turns Utah's one strength into a weakness. Namely, the depth up front. Something significant has to come back to make up for that, it's the main reason the Jazz have won games.

The team doesn't improve by banishing players, no matter how much some fans relish hating on them.
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I agree we have the depth, never stated that and why I said we would need a back up in return at the C/PF position. But Jefferson's numbers show he is the worst rebounder out of the 4. Worst EFG% Shooter out of the 4. Worst Defensive Players out of the 4. 2nd Most Minutes out of the 4. Numbers can decieve you but don't completely lie.

Also his 33 minutes cut into the development of our young players for the future.

Do I want them to win now? Yes of course, BUT we are not winning the title this year, and most likely not making the playoffs. So with that being said, why give the Black Hole minutes when he is not in our future.

All I've heard is how great the team chemistry is.... that was when we were winning. It will change here shortly whether we like it our not. When it does, the young guns need time to develop and trading Jefferson is our only option. My point is we don't wait until then and either give them more minutes or trade him for something in return that will open up cap space for next year/draft picks for the future.
 
Is Kanter going to be ready in two years when AJ's contract is up? He might not be ready but playing more will speed up the process. So if the Jazz don't make the playoffs with AJ playing big minutes then the Jazz will look dumb not making the change. I am not ready to just hand over the reins to Kanter either but he should be getting 20 minutes a night. It can be done with the condensed schedule. There should be nights where both Kanter and Favors should get more minutes especially when Millsap and AJ are tired or banged up.
 
The Thriller said:
Our SFs, SGs, and everyone other than Earl and Tinsley @ point, have been inconsistent.
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Actually Earl is probably our most INCONSISTANT player on the team. I agree I was suprised in looking at the numbers but the stats don't completely lie. The only one worse is Bell

-8.4 Production
-4.0 Overall
Actually has a worse Passer rating than Harris (Not by Much)

He has had more 'spurts' of greatness but overall for the season has actually been worse overall than Harris. Not defending Harris by any means but making sure all facts are on the table. Harris is penalized by playing the majority of his minutes with Jefferson - truely believe that. Offense slows down too much for his style of play. Watson on the other hand is told to push the ball and run with the young guys.
 
Brown Notes said:
Kanter sucked huge vs the Knicks scrubs. Stop kidding yourself that he's ready.
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And he played really well against Bynum. My memory is just as selective as yours, so stop kidding yourself that he's not the best big in the league.
 
These kids (kanter, favors) are great, they are out future. Stop kidding yourself that because the limited minutes they get equated to the major minutes Jefferson gets are comparable. When Jefferson has been out this team really struggles. The offense dies often when they are on the board. Most of their point come on put backs and easy shots that are opened up by other players. Yes the have some great moments but they are not ready to carry our back court like Jefferson.

Jefferson has been a big role in us winning if not the biggest reason.
 
Our future depends on Favors and Kanter. They ARE the future. The longer the front office hesitates to let them start and develop, the longer this rebuild project is going to take. Really hope KOC finds the right trade before the deadline, cause I don't want to spend the summer thinking, "Man...I wonder how good Kanter could have been right now if he was actually getting minutes. But hey! It was worth it to make the playoffs! Oh wait....."
 
Broncster said:
These kids (kanter, favors) are great, they are out future. Stop kidding yourself that because the limited minutes they get equated to the major minutes Jefferson gets are comparable. When Jefferson has been out this team really struggles. The offense dies often when they are on the board. Most of their point come on put backs and easy shots that are opened up by other players. Yes the have some great moments but they are not ready to carry our back court like Jefferson.

Jefferson has been a big role in us winning if not the biggest reason.
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Jefferson in the back court? That I've got to see...
 
spycam1 said:
Jefferson in the back court? That I've got to see...
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Carrying the back court meaning the back court sucks and he has to do twice the work. They cant make a shot when he gets double teamed and kick it out plus cant create own shot.
 
spycam1 said:
Our future depends on Favors and Kanter. They ARE the future. The longer the front office hesitates to let them start and develop, the longer this rebuild project is going to take. Really hope KOC finds the right trade before the deadline, cause I don't want to spend the summer thinking, "Man...I wonder how good Kanter could have been right now if he was actually getting minutes. But hey! It was worth it to make the playoffs! Oh wait....."
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Good plan. Trade away any good veterans, suck and lose every game, get high draft picks, instill losing attitude and have no one to teach and work with young guys, trade them away because they never develop since they had to start to early and cant learn, start the new draft picks since they are the future. This plan always works for the perennial losing teams.

Who do you think has been working with the young guys post moves? Jefferson. Who do you think talks to them on the bench and point out mistakes and how to fix them? Jefferson Who do you think talks these kids up and tells them to keep working and they will be great? Jefferson Who do you think they practice against and improve against? Jefferson

Jefferson is not perfect player but he plays hard and he is great with these young kids. He has one of the best attitudes from a veteran who could be replaced by younger guys than I have ever seen.

Your franchise should do everything to win and make it better. If these kids are not better and dont earn minutes over vets they will not develop. Teams who win championships dont bench and trade better players to develop and they dont "tank" seasons on purpose to get higher picks.
 
Ok, a fair attempt, but this is -like often- the wrong approach to the problem. I often repeat myself in these Jefferson discussions, but i don't get a response somehow, so here it goes again:

You can't take jefferson's fg% or efg% and compare them to Favors, Kanter or anyone on this team except Millsap maybe. most of the time he gets the ball too far away from the basket with an iso-type situation, or worse a double team. He's bailing out the team when they don't know what to do, which happens a ton because harris sucks. Millsap would look even worse if he was used this way. Jefferson doesn't have bad stamina imo, but they ask too much from him. You could have this game plan with young Shaq as your center.

I admit, Jefferson's rebounding is miserable and there is no explenation for it. His average numbers are better than what it actually looks like in games. He made some improvements when compared to last season though. His technique is probably bad but i don't have enough knowledge to comment on it.

His defence is slightly below average but Millsap's isn't far ahead. They have bad chemistry on defense. It just doesn't work when you have practically no player on the court that brings some help defense when a big man gets beat. But our defense is pretty solid this year and not our biggest problem.

Also The Thriller is right, which brings me to the passing accusations. His assist numbers are rock solid. He gets nearly no "free" assists through kick outs because our wings can't hit **** from outside.

I don't have anything against trading him for the right deal at the right time, but this continous bashing is not fair to the person or the player.
 
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