Dude, that's hurtful.
Explosion at Josh Powell's WA home......
- Thread starter Duck Rodgers
- Start date
Dude, that's hurtful.
GVC
Well-Known Member
That's likely because you're a fatalistic fool who thinks people are born either good or bad.NUMBERICA said:
I like to think that there are reasons people do what they do that go beyond whether or not they're "evil". Trying to learn what it is that causes people to commit atrocious, seemingly senseless crimes might help us find ways to avoid future atrocities, like the ones being discussed in this thread.
Or we can just sit around hoping God figures it all out for us...
Or we can all just agree to judge a guy based on his actions and throw out everything else when the crime is heinous enough. Josh Powell isn't the first - nor the last - person that MIGHT have been abused as a child. The things we're exposed to as children influence the adult we become, but as much gray as there is on issues all around us, there are lines that push me beyond a point of reasoning. While we are animals, we are also sentient and should have the ability to discern obvious right from obvious wrong. I will condemn the **** out of someone for abusing children in anyway, let alone needlessly murdering them.
Maybe Jerry Sandusky was abused as a child, maybe he wasn't. I fail to see why that matters. They're ****ing terrible people and the only lesson to learn is one that everyone already knows most and learns first: Don't be a monster.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Really? You fail to see how there might be reasons why they did what they did? That maybe we can learn more about abuse and its consequences? That perhaps we can use this knowledge to better isolate dangerous people, and remove them from society and/or try to rehabilitate them?
In all reality, no, I don't think there's much of a lesson there. By that I mean all of this is already known, and if you're contemplating ****ing a child, I doubt that:
-You don't already know the influence it will have on the child
-You certainly don't care
It's moot. Everyone knows you're not supposed to **** or murder children. I assume anyone that does was abused. That doesn't make my mind venture into any territory remotely near excusing. No one has excused what Josh has done, but there are sentiments being expressed that are in that territory. As far as I go and as far as I would hope everyone else is concerned, it won't be had. But I can't control that.
this is for trout
who said
Probably nobody could do that but Jesus. But here, I'll give it a go.
Please overlook all this, all disbelievers and otherwise rational folks. . . . .
Let's suppose that all God's children waiting to come to earth and get their mortal SUVs are asking questions before signing up for the deal. "Can you guarantee that my SUV will do wheelies and leave everybody in the dust? "Can you make mine jump higher, and longer, so I can dunk on everybody anytime I want?" "Can you guarantee that I won't just crash and burn?"
"Nope. Nope. Nope"
OK, let's rephrase it on more spiritual terms. . . .
"Will my parents be good?" "Will I be White and Delightsome"? "Will people treat me right"? "Will I learn what's right?"
"Ask them when you get there, see if they'll listen to you better than they listen to me."
"To whom? You're my kid, and you'll end up looking like me, if you want to."
"Certainly not, and neither will you always treat others right. Learn from the mistakes/evil of others and try to do better. I will treat you right, I will over-rule everyone else in the end. If you will give me the faith it takes for me to be involved."
"OK, class, all I promise is to bring you home and give you the you you will choose for yourself to be;, and send you to a place you deserve in the end. Take it or leave it".
Our best pyschiatric professionals who try to understand the things that make us what we are, and how we develop under observed circumstances, probably would agree that being molested as a child by an adult authority figure is a particularly iffy thing to explain. The mind can respond in different ways, with either choice of will or particulars in the circumstance. But it is a significant trend that the abused do frequently become abusers. Kids need good parents, and there are lots of ways we can go wrong.
I figure there might be some reasons if God turns away sometimes from some nations that are getting pretty awful in their ways.
Just no way to justify sending kids into circumstances like that.
And all that said as general caveats, here's what Jesus will do for Josh, and his father. (1) In Brigham Young's judgment, dissolve them into their primal elements, destroy their identity or identiability as having anything to do with Him.
(2) In Pacific Garden Mission christianity, or maybe modern LDS christianity,warehouse them somewhere, give them shelter, books to read, chores to do, and lots of solicitous ministers to go over bible verses with them, to see if they still won't just call out for Jesus to save them from their sins, and make new men of them. . . . . after which they will help minister to the lost and damned of mankind.
I'm of divided opinion about which of these is the torment, and which is the mercy.
But I basically think we are all damned unless we get some help.
Which is why Jesus.
Now folks, back to your self-sufficiency and games.
who said
Probably nobody could do that but Jesus. But here, I'll give it a go.
Please overlook all this, all disbelievers and otherwise rational folks. . . . .
Let's suppose that all God's children waiting to come to earth and get their mortal SUVs are asking questions before signing up for the deal. "Can you guarantee that my SUV will do wheelies and leave everybody in the dust? "Can you make mine jump higher, and longer, so I can dunk on everybody anytime I want?" "Can you guarantee that I won't just crash and burn?"
"Nope. Nope. Nope"
OK, let's rephrase it on more spiritual terms. . . .
"Will my parents be good?" "Will I be White and Delightsome"? "Will people treat me right"? "Will I learn what's right?"
"Ask them when you get there, see if they'll listen to you better than they listen to me."
"To whom? You're my kid, and you'll end up looking like me, if you want to."
"Certainly not, and neither will you always treat others right. Learn from the mistakes/evil of others and try to do better. I will treat you right, I will over-rule everyone else in the end. If you will give me the faith it takes for me to be involved."
"OK, class, all I promise is to bring you home and give you the you you will choose for yourself to be;, and send you to a place you deserve in the end. Take it or leave it".
Our best pyschiatric professionals who try to understand the things that make us what we are, and how we develop under observed circumstances, probably would agree that being molested as a child by an adult authority figure is a particularly iffy thing to explain. The mind can respond in different ways, with either choice of will or particulars in the circumstance. But it is a significant trend that the abused do frequently become abusers. Kids need good parents, and there are lots of ways we can go wrong.
I figure there might be some reasons if God turns away sometimes from some nations that are getting pretty awful in their ways.
Just no way to justify sending kids into circumstances like that.
And all that said as general caveats, here's what Jesus will do for Josh, and his father. (1) In Brigham Young's judgment, dissolve them into their primal elements, destroy their identity or identiability as having anything to do with Him.
(2) In Pacific Garden Mission christianity, or maybe modern LDS christianity,warehouse them somewhere, give them shelter, books to read, chores to do, and lots of solicitous ministers to go over bible verses with them, to see if they still won't just call out for Jesus to save them from their sins, and make new men of them. . . . . after which they will help minister to the lost and damned of mankind.
I'm of divided opinion about which of these is the torment, and which is the mercy.
But I basically think we are all damned unless we get some help.
Which is why Jesus.
Now folks, back to your self-sufficiency and games.
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You might need a philosophy course, and maybe a theological refresher if you seriously want to understand it, but even Jay Leno would have found some use for it.
Do you really want to see someone get sympathetic and apologetic for the hapless Josh and his children, who likely would have grown up as seriously messed up as he was, and his father?
Yes you're right, I did the same thing in the context of his horrific evil deed(s) that the American people did with their liberty in the context of 9/11. And I think I might be just as wrong, and just as understandable, in the rush to place it all on the government to protect us or our children.
So here you go, I tried, I just couldn't really do it. I am driven to the extreme that people like Josh and his dad would be absolutely better off dissolved into non-existence, and that that's the most merciful and compassionate thing that could happen to them. Who would want to go on existing after that. It's pretty clear to me Josh didn't want to. I might be failing to nurture some essential charity though, for all sinners. . . .
The folks at Pacific Garden Mission, or the LDS relief/service/missionary folks, might be able to help those who can't get out of bed or tie their shoes or quit their alcohol addiction maybe, but those who kill innocent kids have already lost the essential kernal of humanity. But I think those folks who might try to serve even them in the line of christian ministration have made it pretty clear they would, like the girl who loved the ax murderer in Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment", have that essential charity much better than I am feeling it right now. She said, of her love, there was no one she could give it to who needed it more.
Probably, it will be Jesus alone who can really do that for us, though.
I don't like to talk about it much, but since it kind of applies here... I was abused by a male babysitter when I was a youngling. I feel like I am a fairly "normal" person. I guess I could use it as an excuse to rob, steal, kill and plunder but I know better. A good example for me to look at is Elizabeth Smart. After hearing what that girl went through, man, if ever there was an excuse for a person to "check out" mentally, she had it. Yet you see her on tv and she is bright, happy and you would never know (that said, it could just be an act while the cameras are around, I don't know). The bottom line is crap happens, how you choose to deal with it, make adjustments in your life determines who and what you end up being. I hope that nobody misconstrues this as an attempt to defend Josh. I think the guy was insane. Only an insane person would choose to do what he did.
On the contrary, I read it as an assertion that JP could have made correct choices, regardless of his past, and that hardship can be overcome.
Repped accordingly.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
I have a problem with this statement. There are plenty of other possibilities.
Sometimes people are just evil (have no conscience), sometimes they are influenced by drugs, sometimes they are vengeful, selfish, asses, or weak minded cowards (i.e. they have horrible moral character.)
Again, this makes very little sense to me. Have you somehow decided that I am on Josh's side or that I feel like people should feel bad for him? Please. The only thing I have said in this thread is that you tards that are judging him are no better than he is. Hate the sin, love the sinner, as they say -- because you have no idea what was going on in his mind/life during all of this, and if you were in his shoes, you may have done the same thing, maybe something worse. Of course, this kind of thinking leads to terrorism, and as we all know, terrorists are all Muslims and want to take our jobs, wives, etc.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
The implications of that retarded statement are way beyond your grasp.
I read in here implications that we should not be sorry for the kids. That is a farce. I do feel sorry for them. They never had a chance to experience life. they were out of the dads custody and with "normal" parents. They had a normal chance of being good people when they grew up. Sad all the way around. Just a tragedy.
Well, until us "tards" flip and act out like he did, I'd say we are doing better. So far. But I agree with the generality that underlies, that unless we do actively pursue higher ideals in life, we all can degenerate to the point of losing it all, like he did. And, man, the extended sarcasm about unreasoned panic about "foreigner" terrorists sorta takes away from your case. Not that I don't do some rants like that, too.
I realize you're on a "high" from your triple double. You must be doing pretty good nowadays to be able to play like that. Better than flat out on death's door like last September. Maybe if I got out and ran hard enough to get some blood with oxygen going around in brain, I'd start making better sense.
I gave Gojazz a well-deserved rep for this. We should nurture hope in every way we possibly can. Even if our institutions have problems, and our mass media-mediated "culture" fails entirely, our humanity should drive us to act positively somehow.
Couple of things: First of all, thank you for dumbing this post down so I can understand it. Much appreciated. Secondly, my use of the word "tards" and the whole diatribe on terrorists was worthless, and you're right, it kind of trashed the point I was trying to make. And lastly, I don't think "high" is the right term. In fact, for most of last night I was concerned that I might just be having a heart attack. I haven't played that hard or aggressively in years and my body just wasn't used to it -- I was simply having too much fun to notice at the time. Here I am almost 16 hours later, and I can hardly walk, both of my legs are barking and when I looked at my feet this morning in the shower, my toes were actually flipping me off.
Anyhow...
That is very possible, but I'd be more inclined to believe it if it were someone other than you telling me. I hope you choke on a turkey sandwich.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
The poor helpless case worker that was charged with protecting the kids is cowering in her Prius trying to make the 911 dispatcher realize that it is a life and death situation for 10 minutes. Pretty sad.
