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The Obligations

illyasova

Active Member
As we all folks were discussing the matches, the Bulls match showed us the big picture and what an organization and team should be. It has two sides: on the court issue and off the court issue.

Off the court Issue: The coaching staff must complete each other, thus far the team can improve under the disputes among each others. The personalities' roles are so much matter for this. Yeah, all can be good people who obey the rule and bring the positive energy but sadly it is not enough to succeed. Hornacek, Layden and Lowe stubborn enough to insist on telling their ideas to Tyrone? Or good enough to bring the table on new things? New additions tactically and details? As i see, the assistant coaches can not prove these elements. I do not wanna give the excuses of the short preperation period and all. Once the season goes on, you really can not see any development of players personally or team wise. And it has nothing about the results. All NBA knows the team is not strong enough to compete for the playoffs but willing to prepare for the future? It is also not certain either. The period is just mixed and the organization seems confused. They must be sharper and get something done.

Also the big men coach Michael Sanders must show what he has been doing so far. You see the effects of Hakeem on Dwight, Kareem on Bynum etc but Michael Sanders on Kanter and Favors? Sadly not sure of him either and Malone must have been in this sentence.

The Culture: I really respect the traditions and believe in them as the main elements that make the team as real team. You see the passage writing " One hammer is not enough to crash the rock but keep up hammering, may be needed just last step in the San Antonio locker room. Or the behaviours in Jordan days of Bulls. As both sides accepted the event, M.J. had slapped the ball to the face of Steve Kerr several times to make him more serious and respect the workers around. So, some nasty players needed for every team who work *** off and be leader for others you like or not. Not just the players but coaches, assistants etc.

The Bravery: Sam Presti and Ainge must be the primary examples for it. No matter what others tell, you must step up for the truth you are sure of and get it done. Presti brought all the right elements to San Antonio and now goes on making it for Thunder. Drafts, trades and providing the best atmosphere for the core of the roster. He shut down the media about Harden and talked about the minutes of rookies and aim of organization 1st. Now they are competing. Ainge brought all needs for Boston and he is still searching for the right and new pieces no matter what others tell. So Kevin O'connor should be aggressive for shortening the rebuilding process by being brave and put us in the right direction.(AL and Harris trade, talk to Corbine and encurage him to rebuild not the winning numbers etc)

On the court issues: No matter what players perform well enough in some matches due to match ups, you must know their abilities and fix the team well. As it is being said, Coaching is hiding the players' defects and showing the strengths. The up tempo play is the key for increasing the points and efficiency. Harris' dribbling ability, Millsap and Favors' running ability and Hayward's ability to find the right guys under the rim can be provided by just the up tempo. It can reduce the effectiveness of Al but Millsap numbers and Favors additional minutes and contribution can compensate it. The right pick and roll play in today's games are more efficient than any moves on the court. It provides you more than 3 options at least on offense if your big man can roll. Think the pick and roll between Hayward and Favors on the top or Harris and Millsap on the left and right blocks. Both guards can drive for the lay up, pass the rolling man or the third guy waiting for the shoot at the opposite side of pick and roll. The backdoor passes ala weber to Divac in Sacramento days were keys for easy baskets. Millsap to Favors or Kanter who sliding to basket from the baseline can be tried but the need is true spacing of the perimeter players. Hayward's play of point forward must be priority too. His strength is his basketball IQ not shooting. The numbers of Al post up must be also reduced for the fast flow of the ball. Look at the Bogutless Bucks. Their roster is so mediocre but bigs' rolling after the hard screens and shooting ability compensates of Bogut's post up numbers. So Millsap gotta get limitless credit for the midrange shots for spacing. Both big men try to get position for the offensive rebound is not always good thing, close the paints for perimeter players, make even easier to get defended and probable fast break points if you can not get the rebound.

And for the future:

CJ's inconsistency is consistency and he is now veteran even though he is younger than most of players in the team. Add him Josh Howard whom you can not trust on. His good days are back of him and you must be realistic about your hopes on him. So SF position is supposed to be immediately solved for the next season by shipping out both of them. The new SF must be sharp shooter and athletic enough to run. Harris is playing well in recent days but he is not the true play maker for the team, in fact he is not play maker and Watson is the only true play maker who can contribute to the team on both sides of the court but he must be the 3rd PG of the team next year, not enough to be the back up of the main PG. The next year's PG must be pass 1st guy who will increase the efficiency of players around and set the pace of the game. In today's game your pf must be shooting well enough to be respected from the perimeter so add a back up guy who can shoot and will get limited minutes behind Millsap and Favors.( Sure iam thinking of Al gone) The instructions must be given obviously to the young guys especially Favors and Kanter. For Kanter, quickness and shooting is obligation. He must find some points from the outside to open ways for Favors pick and rolls. So pick and pop must be a weapon for him. In his second year he gotta finish some post up moves too. Again my wish goes to Malone. For Favors, he gotta know the value of his exploviness and fast. He must watch Millsap rather than Al to make some steps under the rim. For me, posting him up like Al is just injustice for him. He gotta be the primary pick and roll player ala Amare of Knicks. By this way both Kanter and Favors can be good duo.

Sorry again for the long post but being realistic does not mean being pessimistic to me. If the organization gets more brave and do not wait for the right steps, then grass can be more greener for us.
 
As we all folks were discussing the matches, the Bulls match showed us the big picture and what an organization and team should be. It has two sides: on the court issue and off the court issue.

Off the court Issue: The coaching staff must complete each other, thus far the team can improve under the disputes among each others. The personalities' roles are so much matter for this. Yeah, all can be good people who obey the rule and bring the positive energy but sadly it is not enough to succeed. Hornacek, Layden and Lowe stubborn enough to insist on telling their ideas to Tyrone? Or good enough to bring the table on new things? New additions tactically and details? As i see, the assistant coaches can not prove these elements. I do not wanna give the excuses of the short preperation period and all. Once the season goes on, you really can not see any development of players personally or team wise. And it has nothing about the results. All NBA knows the team is not strong enough to compete for the playoffs but willing to prepare for the future? It is also not certain either. The period is just mixed and the organization seems confused. They must be sharper and get something done.

Also the big men coach Michael Sanders must show what he has been doing so far. You see the effects of Hakeem on Dwight, Kareem on Bynum etc but Michael Sanders on Kanter and Favors? Sadly not sure of him either and Malone must have been in this sentence.

The Culture: I really respect the traditions and believe in them as the main elements that make the team as real team. You see the passage writing " One hammer is not enough to crash the rock but keep up hammering, may be needed just last step in the San Antonio locker room. Or the behaviours in Jordan days of Bulls. As both sides accepted the event, M.J. had slapped the ball to the face of Steve Kerr several times to make him more serious and respect the workers around. So, some nasty players needed for every team who work *** off and be leader for others you like or not. Not just the players but coaches, assistants etc.

The Bravery: Sam Presti and Ainge must be the primary examples for it. No matter what others tell, you must step up for the truth you are sure of and get it done. Presti brought all the right elements to San Antonio and now goes on making it for Thunder. Drafts, trades and providing the best atmosphere for the core of the roster. He shut down the media about Harden and talked about the minutes of rookies and aim of organization 1st. Now they are competing. Ainge brought all needs for Boston and he is still searching for the right and new pieces no matter what others tell. So Kevin O'connor should be aggressive for shortening the rebuilding process by being brave and put us in the right direction.(AL and Harris trade, talk to Corbine and encurage him to rebuild not the winning numbers etc)

On the court issues: No matter what players perform well enough in some matches due to match ups, you must know their abilities and fix the team well. As it is being said, Coaching is hiding the players' defects and showing the strengths. The up tempo play is the key for increasing the points and efficiency. Harris' dribbling ability, Millsap and Favors' running ability and Hayward's ability to find the right guys under the rim can be provided by just the up tempo. It can reduce the effectiveness of Al but Millsap numbers and Favors additional minutes and contribution can compensate it. The right pick and roll play in today's games are more efficient than any moves on the court. It provides you more than 3 options at least on offense if your big man can roll. Think the pick and roll between Hayward and Favors on the top or Harris and Millsap on the left and right blocks. Both guards can drive for the lay up, pass the rolling man or the third guy waiting for the shoot at the opposite side of pick and roll. The backdoor passes ala weber to Divac in Sacramento days were keys for easy baskets. Millsap to Favors or Kanter who sliding to basket from the baseline can be tried but the need is true spacing of the perimeter players. Hayward's play of point forward must be priority too. His strength is his basketball IQ not shooting. The numbers of Al post up must be also reduced for the fast flow of the ball. Look at the Bogutless Bucks. Their roster is so mediocre but bigs' rolling after the hard screens and shooting ability compensates of Bogut's post up numbers. So Millsap gotta get limitless credit for the midrange shots for spacing. Both big men try to get position for the offensive rebound is not always good thing, close the paints for perimeter players, make even easier to get defended and probable fast break points if you can not get the rebound.

And for the future:

CJ's inconsistency is consistency and he is now veteran even though he is younger than most of players in the team. Add him Josh Howard whom you can not trust on. His good days are back of him and you must be realistic about your hopes on him. So SF position is supposed to be immediately solved for the next season by shipping out both of them. The new SF must be sharp shooter and athletic enough to run. Harris is playing well in recent days but he is not the true play maker for the team, in fact he is not play maker and Watson is the only true play maker who can contribute to the team on both sides of the court but he must be the 3rd PG of the team next year, not enough to be the back up of the main PG. The next year's PG must be pass 1st guy who will increase the efficiency of players around and set the pace of the game. In today's game your pf must be shooting well enough to be respected from the perimeter so add a back up guy who can shoot and will get limited minutes behind Millsap and Favors.( Sure iam thinking of Al gone) The instructions must be given obviously to the young guys especially Favors and Kanter. For Kanter, quickness and shooting is obligation. He must find some points from the outside to open ways for Favors pick and rolls. So pick and pop must be a weapon for him. In his second year he gotta finish some post up moves too. Again my wish goes to Malone. For Favors, he gotta know the value of his exploviness and fast. He must watch Millsap rather than Al to make some steps under the rim. For me, posting him up like Al is just injustice for him. He gotta be the primary pick and roll player ala Amare of Knicks. By this way both Kanter and Favors can be good duo.

Sorry again for the long post but being realistic does not mean being pessimistic to me. If the organization gets more brave and do not wait for the right steps, then grass can be more greener for us.

Must play "Jazz basketball." Must pretend that Stockton, Malone, and Sloan are still here. Must pretend that 3 point line was not invented. Must pretend that all vets are better than all youngsters. Must make desperate attempt for 8th seed and first round humiliation instead of preparing for the future. Repeat ad infinitum.
 
They (organization) just don't have the balls to do the right things. Losers

Jazz are about being consistently good/prfitable... Nod great and not terribly bad aka Wizards/Bobcats. As long as they are profitable that's all they care. Winning championship is not on agenda. We as Jazz fans should lower our expectations and enjoy wins when they happen including occasional playoff appearances. We were spoiled with Stockton and Malone years and many of us still live in that glorious past. G.Miller is so damn lucky to have this team in Utah where fans are so loyal and crazy they will support it no matter who coaches them or how badly they suck. No other location would work for this type of team/organization.
 
Jazz are about being consistently good/prfitable... Nod great and not terribly bad aka Wizards/Bobcats. As long as they are profitable that's all they care. Winning championship is not on agenda. We as Jazz fans should lower our expectations and enjoy wins when they happen including occasional playoff appearances. We were spoiled with Stockton and Malone years and many of us still live in that glorious past. G.Miller is so damn lucky to have this team in Utah where fans are so loyal and crazy they will support it no matter who coaches them or how badly they suck. No other location would work for this type of team/organization.

Unfortunately, if the team keeps on playing the way it is, and not much is done down the line to make the team a serious contender they will start dropping big time in attendance. This will lead them to being unprofitable anyways, and the team would probably have to be sold. Honestly, even if the team has to be moved elsewhere, I am starting to think it may be for the best if it is to an owner who is actually willing to spend the money to get a championship.
 
Jazz are about being consistently good/prfitable... Nod great and not terribly bad aka Wizards/Bobcats. As long as they are profitable that's all they care. Winning championship is not on agenda.G.Miller is so damn lucky to have this team in Utah where fans are so loyal and crazy they will support it no matter who coaches them or how badly they suck. No other location would work for this type of team/organization.
Favors, Kanter and Burks definitely should obviously be playing substantially more minutes and it's foolish of the Jazz to think playing veterans like Al, Raja, CJ and Howard heavy minutes does the franchise any good (both shortterm & longterm).

That said, if the Jazz only cared about turning in profits and not winning a championship they wouldn't have taken the Bulls down to the wire in 2 consecutive Finals, they wouldn't have given AK an $86 million extension, they wouldn't have given Boozer $68 million and Okur $50 million, they wouldn't have hung onto Boozer and AK and paid the luxury tax in 08-09, 09-10, they wouldn't have opted for the quick fix approach in trading for Al Jefferson which put them over the luxury tax again in 10-11, and finally they wouldn't have traded their only allstar and franchise PG in Deron Williams with a year and a half remaining on his contract to receive 3 potential rebuilding blocks.

The Jazz had an incredible run of 24 playoff appearances in 27 seasons and only 1 losing season in that stretch. Irrational Jazz fans can blame the franchise for not winning a title in that stretch but they fail to realize only 7 different franchises won a championship in those 27 seasons. That's the way the NBA works, the haves and the have-nots. Utah - like alot of the other 21-22 franchises who failed to win a championship in that period - have had alot of great teams that came close but never won it all - but that doesn't mean the organization wasn't trying.

The biggest problem right now isn't that the team is trying to win games - it's that they think the best way to win games is by playing the veterans big minutes which is blatantly wrong. CJ Miles playing 20 minutes a night at the expense of Alec Burks won't help you win anything, except maybe the draft lottery.
 
illyasova, I enjoyed reading your post,(and I agree on most of it) but just one little point I'd like to ask, don't you think that Ainge is too brave? Or more honestly and simply, disloyal a bit? I imagine he would kick out even a Bill Russel or a Larry Bird in the name of his "bravery".
 
illyasova, I enjoyed reading your post,(and I agree on most of it) but just one little point I'd like to ask, don't you think that Ainge is too brave? Or more honestly and simply, disloyal a bit? I imagine he would kick out even a Bill Russel or a Larry Bird in the name of his "bravery".

Yea, he is exactly disloyal about trading Pierce, Garnett etc but just look at the success he reached with the big and old three. Now he knows their roles are done with the team and he still tries to search ways. Still i do not think the player get traded will be Pierce but Rondo or KG. General managers can not be as emotional as fans but just realistic and professional.
 
Yea, he is exactly disloyal about trading Pierce, Garnett etc but just look at the success he reached with the big and old three. Now he knows their roles are done with the team and he still tries to search ways. Still i do not think the player get traded will be Pierce but Rondo or KG. General managers can not be as emotional as fans but just realistic and professional.

Maybe it's too business for me, being a team, communion in the team establishment, fidelity and the adherence are also important for me. Eventually, these are the player who gave you the several championships, kicking their asses as soon as they get slowed down wouldn't my predilection.

On the other hand I sure agree on that some bravery could do wonders for the Jazz, if it's gonna be wisely.
 
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