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Gordon Hayward is the Jazz's version of Manu Ginobili.

Here is AK's first 3yrs in the league

https://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrei_kirilenko/career_stats.html

[TABLE="class: playerStatTable careerAvg"]
[TR="class: title"]
[TD="class: year"]Year[/TD]
[TD="class: team"]Team[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]GS[/TD]
[TD]MPG[/TD]
[TD]FG%[/TD]
[TD]3P%[/TD]
[TD]FT%[/TD]
[TD]OFF[/TD]
[TD]DEF[/TD]
[TD]RPG[/TD]
[TD]APG[/TD]
[TD]SPG[/TD]
[TD]BPG[/TD]
[TD]TO[/TD]
[TD]PF[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: yr"]01-02[/TD]
[TD="class: tm"]UTA[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]26.2[/TD]
[TD]0.450[/TD]
[TD]0.250[/TD]
[TD]0.768[/TD]
[TD]1.8[/TD]
[TD]3.1[/TD]
[TD]4.9[/TD]
[TD]1.1[/TD]
[TD]1.4[/TD]
[TD]1.9[/TD]
[TD]1.32[/TD]
[TD]1.90[/TD]
[TD]10.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TD="class: yr"]02-03[/TD]
[TD="class: tm"]UTA[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]27.7[/TD]
[TD]0.491[/TD]
[TD]0.325[/TD]
[TD]0.800[/TD]
[TD]1.8[/TD]
[TD]3.4[/TD]
[TD]5.3[/TD]
[TD]1.7[/TD]
[TD]1.5[/TD]
[TD]2.2[/TD]
[TD]1.70[/TD]
[TD]2.31[/TD]
[TD]12.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: yr"]03-04[/TD]
[TD="class: tm"]UTA[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]37.1[/TD]
[TD]0.443[/TD]
[TD]0.338[/TD]
[TD]0.790[/TD]
[TD]2.9[/TD]
[TD]5.2[/TD]
[TD]8.1[/TD]
[TD]3.1[/TD]
[TD]1.9[/TD]
[TD]2.8[/TD]
[TD]2.76[/TD]
[TD]2.23[/TD]
[TD]16.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


vs Hayward

https://www.nba.com/playerfile/gordon_hayward/career_stats.html

[TABLE="class: playerStatTable careerAvg"]
[TR="class: title"]
[TD="class: year"]Year[/TD]
[TD="class: team"]Team[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]GS[/TD]
[TD]MPG[/TD]
[TD]FG%[/TD]
[TD]3P%[/TD]
[TD]FT%[/TD]
[TD]OFF[/TD]
[TD]DEF[/TD]
[TD]RPG[/TD]
[TD]APG[/TD]
[TD]SPG[/TD]
[TD]BPG[/TD]
[TD]TO[/TD]
[TD]PF[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: yr"]10-11[/TD]
[TD="class: tm"]UTA[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]16.9[/TD]
[TD]0.485[/TD]
[TD]0.473[/TD]
[TD]0.711[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]1.4[/TD]
[TD]1.9[/TD]
[TD]1.1[/TD]
[TD]0.4[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]0.97[/TD]
[TD]1.47[/TD]
[TD]5.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TD="class: yr"]11-12[/TD]
[TD="class: tm"]UTA[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]27.5[/TD]
[TD]0.449[/TD]
[TD]0.284[/TD]
[TD]0.825[/TD]
[TD]0.8[/TD]
[TD]2.1[/TD]
[TD]2.9[/TD]
[TD]2.9[/TD]
[TD]0.7[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]1.47[/TD]
[TD]1.60[/TD]
[TD]10.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Lance-A-Million said:
For whatever reason Hayward does seem to play better off the bench
Click to expand...
More touches.
When Burks was drafted, I saw him as a Maggette type, thinking the Jazz should start Hayward at the 2, trade or draft a bigger SF and bring Burks off the bench. MY thought process has changed. Now I'd like to see Hayward anchor the 2nd unit. His overall skills are extremely valuable in creating opportunities for himself and others. I'd like to see him and Paul come in as the early subs. They'd still get 30 mins, but wouldn't have to be competing with Big Al for shots.

Ideal Rotation (without trades):

Jefferson/Kanter
Favors/Millsap
Howard/Hayward
Burks/Hayward
Harris/Watson

At the wings, Hayward comes in for Burks at the 8 min mark of the 1st/3rd. Burks rests through the break and a few minutes into the 2nd/4th. When he comes back in, Hayward slides over to SF. For the remainder of the year, we're stuck with Howard. But I'd like to see the Jazz get a starting SF in the draft or use some combination of assets to get a veteran. Go to a 3-man rotation at the 2/3, with all 3 players getting 30-35 mins each.

I'm not so quick to trade a big...yet. Kanter and Favors still have a ways to go before they're dominant players. Jazz have been fortunate with no injuries, but you generally need 4 good bigs. Saturday game will be a good example, with Jefferson gone. If one of the three then gets dinged or in foul trouble, all of a sudden you have someone like Evans playing major minutes. I'm actually more of a Millsap fan, as Favors and Kanter don't have his range. Millsap can play alongside either, as Favors could slide to the 5 (and he's a lot cheaper than Jefferson). Keep Al until the trade deadline if necessary. Or talk to both about extensions and see which you can sign at a better price. Then trade the other one.

Focus needs to be on getting a couple of PG's. Harris is not the answer and Watson is a good backup, but is getting pretty old.
 
GlassEater said:
More touches.
When Burks was drafted, I saw him as a Maggette type, thinking the Jazz should start Hayward at the 2, trade or draft a bigger SF and bring Burks off the bench. MY thought process has changed. Now I'd like to see Hayward anchor the 2nd unit. His overall skills are extremely valuable in creating opportunities for himself and others. I'd like to see him and Paul come in as the early subs. They'd still get 30 mins, but wouldn't have to be competing with Big Al for shots.

Ideal Rotation (without trades):

Jefferson/Kanter
Favors/Millsap
Howard/Hayward
Burks/Hayward
Harris/Watson

At the wings, Hayward comes in for Burks at the 8 min mark of the 1st/3rd. Burks rests through the break and a few minutes into the 2nd/4th. When he comes back in, Hayward slides over to SF. For the remainder of the year, we're stuck with Howard. But I'd like to see the Jazz get a starting SF in the draft or use some combination of assets to get a veteran. Go to a 3-man rotation at the 2/3, with all 3 players getting 30-35 mins each.

I'm not so quick to trade a big...yet. Kanter and Favors still have a ways to go before they're dominant players. Jazz have been fortunate with no injuries, but you generally need 4 good bigs. Saturday game will be a good example, with Jefferson gone. If one of the three then gets dinged or in foul trouble, all of a sudden you have someone like Evans playing major minutes. I'm actually more of a Millsap fan, as Favors and Kanter don't have his range. Millsap can play alongside either, as Favors could slide to the 5 (and he's a lot cheaper than Jefferson). Keep Al until the trade deadline if necessary. Or talk to both about extensions and see which you can sign at a better price. Then trade the other one.

Focus needs to be on getting a couple of PG's. Harris is not the answer and Watson is a good backup, but is getting pretty old.
Click to expand...

I would throw Tinsley in the rotation, he has proven he can ball. His minutes would come from Harris and Watson. It's a bummer we can't get Evans on the floor.
 
I love this idea that there are these 21 PER (.590 eFG%, >1.5 PPS, 20 pts, 5 rebs, 5 assists per 36) for their career and lockdown defensive players just running around everywhere.

Manu Ginobili on any other team and in greater role (playing more minutes and starting, for example) would've been a superstar. One of the most underrated players of all time.

If the Jazz have 'their' version of him, the Jazz are on their way to the finals.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I love this idea that there are these 21 PER (.590 eFG%, >1.5 PPS, 20 pts, 5 rebs, 5 assists per 36) for their career and lockdown defensive players just running around everywhere.

Manu Ginobili on any other team and in greater role (playing more minutes and starting, for example) would've been a superstar. One of the most underrated players of all time.

If the Jazz have 'their' version of him, the Jazz are on their way to the finals.
Click to expand...

Good point. One of the reasons Manu is able to maintain such a high PER is he comes off the bench. He not only shoots but handles the ball A LOT because one of Timmy or Tony is not in the game. Same thing with James Harden in OKC who comes off the bench and sports a 20+ PER. Hayward needs touches and until we get rid of Al his best usage might be as a 6th man.
 
Superstar is a bit of a stretch for Manu. He excelled in the role Pop gave him. He has had trouble with health though, despite only playing above 30 mpg twice in his career.

He starts and gets 35 mpg he is still a great player, but is he as efficient and does he stay healthy at all?
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Superstar is a bit of a stretch for Manu. He excelled in the role Pop gave him. He has had trouble with health though, despite only playing above 30 mpg twice in his career.

He starts and gets 35 mpg he is still a great player, but is he as efficient and does he stay healthy at all?
Click to expand...

"Trouble with health" is a much bigger stretch. He's played 86% of the games that have transpired up to this season. Manu shouldn't be faulted for doing everything he should, that's asked of him, and not striving to be in the spotlight but never shrinking in it.
 
Well the numbers on Hayward of the bench the last 11 games From Locke:
Last 11 games Gordon Hayward is shooting 53% FG, 42% from three and 94% from line- averaging 13 pts 4 rebs and 2 ast
Click to expand...

Pretty close to Manu in his second year.
 
It depends who is on the floor.

The reason Hayward does not do as well as a starter is becuase the starting 5 are told to Feed Al, then Milsap.

2nd Unit, plays are called for Hayward and he is part of the flow.

Depends on personnel.

With the way the Jazz starting lineup is , and how they are instructed, yes, Hayward is better as 6th man.
 
Hayward the last 5 games is putting in 14 pts on 56.5% shooting, 80% 3pt, 93% FT, 3 rb, 1.4 ast, .4 st, 0 blk

He is playing better offensively, but his assists, steals, and blocks have dropped. He is putting more effort into offense, and his defensive numbers have dropped. Is he playing worse defense from the bench, or is it because he is now playing more with Kanter and Favors on the floor?

Just curious as I haven't been able to see full games lately, just bits and pieces.
 
JazzSpazz said:
Hayward the last 5 games is putting in 14 pts on 56.5% shooting, 80% 3pt, 93% FT, 3 rb, 1.4 ast, .4 st, 0 blk

He is playing better offensively, but his assists, steals, and blocks have dropped. He is putting more effort into offense, and his defensive numbers have dropped. Is he playing worse defense from the bench, or is it because he is now playing more with Kanter and Favors on the floor?

Just curious as I haven't been able to see full games lately, just bits and pieces.
Click to expand...
In my opinion he is asked to take more responsibility on offense that it does take away some of his defense. The other numbers will come back up with time as he learns to balance the different aspects of his game.
 
For those interested, here are Gordon Hayward's splits by position, when he's starting and off the bench. Obviously the numbers coming off the bench is too small to make a valid statement, but it sure would be nice if he can keep on producing like that.

Screen Shot 2012-03-17 at 12.52.20 PM.jpg


EDIT: I don't know how to make it bigger because I'm an idiot with computers, somebody can do that for me, otherwise if you click on the image you should be able to see it.
 
The good thing here is coach Ty is willing to keep tweaking the lineup/rotation to get the best out of everyone. He's willing to admit a mistake and correct it (like starting Favors, then quickly scrapping that idea). Now he's swapped Howard, who appears to be a better starter, with Hayward, who's thriving off the bench.
I do agree with his starting Bell as long as he keeps limiting his minutes. Bell's strength is his defense, which ensures we avoid too many 40-point first quarters from the opponent... Starting Burks or Miles exposes us more defensively, IMO...
 
NotDeadYet said:
The good thing here is coach Ty is willing to keep tweaking the lineup/rotation to get the best out of everyone. He's willing to admit a mistake and correct it (like starting Favors, then quickly scrapping that idea). Now he's swapped Howard, who appears to be a better starter, with Hayward, who's thriving off the bench.
I do agree with his starting Bell as long as he keeps limiting his minutes. Bell's strength is his defense, which ensures we avoid too many 40-point first quarters from the opponent... Starting Burks or Miles exposes us more defensively, IMO...
Click to expand...
Well, I guess at this point you could say it's the thing he sucks at the least.

But I do aknowledge Ty has been going with a lot of different combos. I'll give him credit for that. And it's very apparent a couple of players were being showcased for trades...at least as much as you can "showcase" players with limited appeal.
 
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