Compared to Wendover, which is a huge drain on our economy based on the readings coming out of my SOMP meter (Seat Of My Pants).
Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?
- Thread starter TroutBum
- Start date
Compared to Wendover, which is a huge drain on our economy based on the readings coming out of my SOMP meter (Seat Of My Pants).
Legalize gamblling and weed in every state. Then tax the hell out of them.
I am not a weed smoker (never have and never will). But honestly how is it really different than alcohol? They both mess up your mental state, can be addictive, alter you personality...
If you are going to leglaize one why not the other? I just fail to see weed as being on the same level as drugs like heroin, crack, PCP...
I am not a weed smoker (never have and never will). But honestly how is it really different than alcohol? They both mess up your mental state, can be addictive, alter you personality...
If you are going to leglaize one why not the other? I just fail to see weed as being on the same level as drugs like heroin, crack, PCP...
Historically, Americans have supported progressive taxes. You've been told many times already that lotteries are regressive. Besides, if we decide something must be paid for then why should we also decide to fund it voluntarily (and regressively)? If it's worth paying for and must be done at the state level then shouldn't most stakeholders have some skin in the game?
Is this 43 state co-op a political creation or built by beaurocratic economists? Most people don't sit down and produce a cost-benefit analysis before voting for something that sounds good to them. I've found many if not most economic choices politicians sell and voters make only account for one side of the ledger.
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9 million dollars! Man, we could build at least a half-dozen speed bumps if we kept that money in Utah.
Keep in mind that 9 million in sales does not equal 9 million in tax revenue.
Also keep in mind that if Utah legalized the lottery they would have more than 9 million in sales. Those are only the people willing to drive to another state to play. I would play the lottery (did while I lived in Memphis) but I am not driving an hour and a half to go buy a ticket.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Here's another way to pose the question: How would a lottery hurt the quality of life in Utah? Even if I don't completely agree with him, Franklin makes some sense on the economic side of the argument, but I still think most Utahns who are anti-lottery are so because of moral beliefs. Does a lottery mean higher teen pregnancy rates in Utah? Do our graduation rates start to fall? Do we see an increase in crime thanks to the lotto? What exactly are we afraid will happen?
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
The schools have needed air conditioners forever. This isn't some new development. Utah is among the last in the nation when it comes to spending on schools. If you want to raise taxes, raise them. It doesn't mean we can't have a lottery. But I'm sure if there was a statewide vote that said "lower taxes and legalize a lottery" or "raise taxes and keep lotteries illegal" the lottery would be legalized by a landslide. People might historically support a progressive tax, but people also historically (and currently) support lotteries in almost every state.
The economics of it right now say millions of dollars are leaving the state every year. It is all going to Idaho, Colorado, and Arizona. Those states get paid every time a Utah resident buys a lottery ticket there. They also withhold state (and federal) income tax from the big winnings. And they keep all of the unclaimed winnings (not big enough for someone to drive all the way there to claim).
It's not a theoretical "if we legalized a lottery and people played..." It's a "people are playing it right now so we might as well keep the money in this state."
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
That is only from Idaho. It doesn't factor in Arizona and Colorado. And it's also from 4 years ago. The article says that figure grows every year.
It may not seem like much to you. But we'll see how you feel when your kids are in middle school and high school and it's over 80 degrees inside because they can't afford to install air conditioners.
Isn't that simply due the the large rnumber of children in Utah? I live in a southern Utah town and it has around 7 elementary schools. I lived in a town in Missippi around the same size and it had 1 elementary school. So Utah can be spending a crap load on schools but the dollar per child is crap.
Or does Utah spend less starting out?
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I don't know why Utah is spending less. I'm sure the number of children is a big part of it. But the point is Utah needs all the help it can get when it comes to funding the schools. A state lottery would certainly help that situation.
No I am all with you on this one. Education should be one of the primary concerns of any state. Having the extra revenue can only help.
I just wanted to know the total Utah spent on education compared to other states. Not $ per child.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't know what the total is. Per child is the important one though. As the number of children increase, the total should increase proportionally.
Here is an interesting article I found. (this is for 2008)
https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/HE/NEA_Rankings_and_Estimates010711.pdf
Utah is the #1 spot in "PERCENTAGE OF RESIDENT POPULATION UNDER AGE 18, 2008"
That hurts but I agree that we need more money invested. Money alone will not fix the problem.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
So then Utah should also be in the #1 spot in "looking for revenue sources to fund education."
Money is the whole problem. We're among the last in the nation (and maybe even dead last) in education spending. Either we stop having so many kids or we spend more. Those are the only 2 solutions.
I was serious when I said that a lot of schools don't have air conditioners because they can't afford it. And this is in The Canyons school district, good neighborhoods. It's a money issue.
Since I philosophically don't support public schools I probably won't look in the same direction as you for the solution to that problem.
Throwing money at the problem has been shown over and over to not solve issues with schooling. But that's off topic.
And yet Utah keeps coming out on top as the fiscally responsible one. But maybe those 43 broke lottery states have it all figured out.
It's not zero sum because of the state's take, but when a Utahn wins the money comes to Utah... initially.
Then the winner pays 35% federal tax and blow the rest on out of state vacation homes, exotic foreign cars, and trips all over the globe. On the surface, that's a net drain on those economies.
You're making a race to the bottom argument. This is akin to saying every state should not only cut corporate taxes lower than their neighbors to attract business, but start subsiding the largest ones to keep them here. Utah agreed to give special treatment to Goldman Sachs to keep them from going to "Idaho, Colorado, and Arizona".
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
You're not going to put sure conditioners in the schools without paying somebody to do it. At some point, money IS the solution.
Utah is not "on top." Utah is doing better than some of those states, and not as good as others.
Not true. When a Utahn (or anyone else) runs the lottery, the state takes federal and state income taxes out before they even pay the winnings. The state takes their piece off the top, before the winner ever brings a dime back to Utah.
No, I'm just saying your arguments against the lottery are mostly moot because Utahns are legally playing it right now. They're just giving all the benefits to other states, while accepting all the negatives.
That is eaxclty the stats I was looking for. Links?
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
This is exactly why we need a lottery. Our taxes are already high enough.