Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

[The Thriller]

Here's something:

https://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=328

False.

Why don't you look up the latest data produced by the utahfoundation?

https://www.utahfoundation.org/img/pdfs/rr680.pdf

WHAT HAPPENED TO UTAH’S EDUCATION PAR ADOX?
Over the past ten years, Utah Foundation has published a number
of reports on public education funding. Several of these reports
explained “Utah’s education paradox” which was that Utah spent
a higher proportion of personal income on K-12 public education
than most other states while also spending less per pupil than any
other state in the nation. This gap was largely explained by Utah’s
unique demographic makeup; with very high birth rates and a very
young population, there were many school aged children. During
the education paradox years (up to the mid-1990s), Utah’s funding
effort ranked in the top ten nationally, but state demographics caused
low per-pupil spending.
However, by the late 1990s and early 2000s the paradox lessened
as the funding effort slowed. The 2006 report showed that Utah’s
education paradox no longer existed. Utah was still last in the nation
for per-pupil spending, but funding effort was no longer remarkable,
having fallen to around the national average.

Utah's demographics are a contributing factor. However, the paradox doesn't exist anymore since spending in education has been diverted to other programs.

I think it's pretty obvious that Utah's legislation has a pro-private/charter school agenda. Make no mistake, there is a strong lobby to divert money from public education and into the coffers of special interest.

So nice job picking out data gameface to promote your opinion. Try using updated data. And try letting facts form your opinions, not pick out outdated information to conform to your opinion.

 

[SaltyDawg]

And if/when they win some money in the lottery I guess it's money coming back into the state. The net is pretty miniscule as I said in an earlier post.

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people that occasionally go to Idaho for lotto tickets. Heck, I even take the drive every once in a while. Most of the time we win a few bucks here and there and throw the ticket away. I'm not driving back up there to cash in a winning ticket unless it's a pretty big win. And claiming by mail is a joke. One time I won $100. I sent the ticket in by mail, and those ******** mailed me a $2 check.

Anyway, I know lots of people who have won $2, $10, whatever, and just thrown the ticket away. The money doesn't make it to Utah. And even if it's a big prize and someone claims it, Idaho takes their state income tax out of the payout. So they get paid either way.

 

[The Thriller]

This post reminded me and this is what I found.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...-percentage-of-budget-spent-on-education.html

Has Utah at #10 in ranking of % of total budget. The other link I listed shows Utah as last as $ per child. Interesting...

In the mid-late 90s Utah cut taxes. This has hurt funding in many programs, but especially in education. Ultimately, Utah needs to find more revenue via lottery, tax increases, nuke waste storage, etc.

However, even education is divided. Over the past decade more money from income/property taxes that was previously dedicated to K-12 has been directed to higher education....

You take away those funds, then true, you might get those ACs in K-12 and smaller class sizes... But the cost may be shifted to higher education.... Then you'll pay more in tuition and fees once you hit college.

 

[The Thriller]

The school calander is nothing new. How have we been able to do it all these years without AC? I guess they just don't make kids like they used to.

Ummmm.... When was the last time you set foot in a classroom?

Do you have kids btw?

Just curious.

You act as if kids learned better 50 or 100 years ago without AC.

Do you really want to argue that having better technology, better AC, and better facilities doesn't improve student performance?

I remember reading a Dnews article just a few months ago that consisted of studies that proved that brighter schools with windows actually improved memory and retention.

It's not a stretch to believe that providing better and more comfortable environments will improve education.

Want proof in the pudding? Next time you're in your office, turn off the AC. We'll see how well your company performs. If things like AC really didn't help production, then why does every office in America have it?

Come on man, you're anti-public school agenda is getting old.

From these stupid comments to your "picking out" information from the utahfoundation.

Stop lying.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

This thread is getting bogged down in semantics, and like Hitler, I'm anti-semantics (he also happened to be anti-semitic, which I am not).

I haven't looked it up, and in fact I'm pretty sure I might just be talking out of my *** right now, but I'm willing to bet that not 1 state that participates in the lottery loses money on it. We can bicker about the distribution of the earnings, etc. but the bottom line is this: It's a time proven money maker. Now, I'm not passionate about whether or not Utah gets a lottery. If it ever came up on a ballot, I'd vote for it, but I certainly don't have the give a **** neccessary to push to put the issue on a ballot.

With that being said, it does annoy me that millions upon millions of Utah dollars leave the state each year in the form of Idaho lotto tickets or trips to Wendover. Not only should Utah have a lottery, I'll take it one step further and suggest that maybe Utah should look into letting the Ute tribe have a casino or 2 in specified areas within an hour or so of SLC. I bet the Utah money spent annually in Wendover dwarfs the $9 million per year that Utahns spend in Idaho. The fact is, Utah money is flying out the window each and every day and the neighboring states are gladly gobbling it all up.

For people who think it's morally wrong, or that things such as an indian casino and/or lotto would negatively affect life in Utah, all I can tell you is that the "element" you're so worried about already exists in this state. The people that drive to Wendover and Idaho on the weekends are you neighbors, co-workers, family members, and friends. They already live among you!

Again, I'm probably dumbing down the argument, but I'm a huge fan of keeping Utah money in Utah. Thank you for your time.

 

[The Thriller]

What broad problem are you trying to fix? You sound like someone who has no idea what he's talking about but you have your political talking points lined up.

Air conditioners are only 1 thing I listed. There is also asbestos in a lot of the schools, and many aren't earthquake safe either.

Utah isn't riddled with a bunch of bad teachers and waste of money. On the contrary, Utah is getting great results for how little is spent per student. If we want to improve it, we have to spend more. Period. That IS the problem right now. The dollars are already stretched too thin.

My bad for listing specific problems instead of unrelated general political talking points.

Ding ding ding!

Salty for the win!

Lets read what someone else said, not just some hack like gameface.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700043945/Utah-last-in-US-in-spending-per-pupil-2-again.html

University of Utah research economist Pam Perlich said Utah has about 35.8 school-age children per 100 "working age" people — nearly a third higher than the national average, according to census estimates. Idaho also has the second-highest students-per-worker ratio.

Newton said educators from others states marvel at how Utah is able to get by on such limited funding. The simple answer, he said, is that they have no other option.

"In public education, you can't say, 'I'm sorry, you can't come to school this year,' " he said. "Not having the money is not an excuse. … Over time, I think school districts and educators in Utah have learned to do more with less, and to work harder and smarter because they have to. There's no other choice."

School districts cope through a number of methods, such as hiring uncertified employees to man their libraries, and relying on aides who receive on-the-job training. This year, at least eight districts will be cutting back on their instructional days, and in districts throughout the state, portable classrooms are used as a means of accommodating population surges and staving off building projects until funding is available.

 

[The Thriller]

This thread is getting bogged down in semantics, and like Hitler, I'm anti-semantics (he also happened to be anti-semitic, which I am not).

I haven't looked it up, and in fact I'm pretty sure I might just be talking out of my *** right now, but I'm willing to bet that not 1 state that participates in the lottery loses money on it. We can bicker about the distribution of the earnings, etc. but the bottom line is this: It's a time proven money maker. Now, I'm not passionate about whether or not Utah gets a lottery. If it ever came up on a ballot, I'd vote for it, but I certainly don't have the give a **** neccessary to push to put the issue on a ballot.

With that being said, it does annoy me that millions upon millions of Utah dollars leave the state each year in the form of Idaho lotto tickets or trips to Wendover. Not only should Utah have a lottery, I'll take it one step further and suggest that maybe Utah should look into letting the Ute tribe have a casino or 2 in specified areas within an hour or so of SLC. I bet the Utah money spent annually in Wendover dwarfs the $9 million per year that Utahns spend in Idaho. The fact is, Utah money is flying out the window each and every day and the neighboring states are gladly gobbling it all up.

For people who think it's morally wrong, or that things such as an indian casino and/or lotto would negatively affect life in Utah, all I can tell you is that the "element" you're so worried about already exists in this state. The people that drive to Wendover and Idaho on the weekends are you neighbors, co-workers, family members, and friends. They already live among you!

Again, I'm probably dumbing down the argument, but I'm a huge fan of keeping Utah money in Utah. Thank you for your time.

This is the #1 issue I have. I can care less what religious wackos think of it. It's sad how so many of our state leaders talk out of both sides of their mouths. Often, it's to enforce their own religious standards and beliefs upon the populace. Is it because they are insecure in their own beliefs? Or are they merely using unrighteous dominion on their fellow brothers and sisters? I'm still not sure.

On one hand, they talk about freedom and less government while simultaneously getting government more entrenched in our lives. I'm LDS and decide not to gamble. That said, if we had a lotto I wouldn't give a damn. There' sa thing called "free agency" that supposedly LDS people support. If gambling is against your views, then don't gamble. Just because drinking is against my religious beliefs doesn't mean that I believe in prohibition. That's stupid.

Keep Utah dollars here. Use your free agency to decide whether to gamble or not. I don't think the government should get in the way of the lottery....

 

[Stoked]

https://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2011/Feb/266829.html

Bad Utah teacher. Being thrifty is not the only bench mark for what is or is not a good teacher. The vast majority are good, hard working, honest teachers. However you all know there are bad ones.

 

[SaltyDawg]

https://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2011/Feb/266829.html

Bad Utah teacher. Being thrifty is not the only bench mark for what is or is not a good teacher. The vast majority are good, hard working, honest teachers. However you all know there are bad ones.

Out of the entire state, yes, there will be some bad apples. How do you propose to weed them out without spending more money?

Statistically, I don't think there are enough bad apples to warrant revamping the system in order to weed them out. And if any action were to be taken, it would certainly require spending money, for a minimal improvement at best.

If Utah had a major problem with teachers sleeping with students, then you would have a point. But it's something that rarely happens, and when it does, those bad apples are immediately removed.

 

[Stoked]

This thread is getting bogged down in semantics, and like Hitler, I'm anti-semantics (he also happened to be anti-semitic, which I am not).

I haven't looked it up, and in fact I'm pretty sure I might just be talking out of my *** right now, but I'm willing to bet that not 1 state that participates in the lottery loses money on it. We can bicker about the distribution of the earnings, etc. but the bottom line is this: It's a time proven money maker. Now, I'm not passionate about whether or not Utah gets a lottery. If it ever came up on a ballot, I'd vote for it, but I certainly don't have the give a **** neccessary to push to put the issue on a ballot.

With that being said, it does annoy me that millions upon millions of Utah dollars leave the state each year in the form of Idaho lotto tickets or trips to Wendover. Not only should Utah have a lottery, I'll take it one step further and suggest that maybe Utah should look into letting the Ute tribe have a casino or 2 in specified areas within an hour or so of SLC. I bet the Utah money spent annually in Wendover dwarfs the $9 million per year that Utahns spend in Idaho. The fact is, Utah money is flying out the window each and every day and the neighboring states are gladly gobbling it all up.

For people who think it's morally wrong, or that things such as an indian casino and/or lotto would negatively affect life in Utah, all I can tell you is that the "element" you're so worried about already exists in this state. The people that drive to Wendover and Idaho on the weekends are you neighbors, co-workers, family members, and friends. They already live among you!

Again, I'm probably dumbing down the argument, but I'm a huge fan of keeping Utah money in Utah. Thank you for your time.

I think the bolded part is huge. All we are avoiding by not allowing the lottery is the revenue. Even if they did not invest that money in education there are plenty of other areas to invest it. Emergency services, healthcare, roads, anti drug and anti gang programs/activites for kids... It is a shame that it is not allowed here.

 

[franklin]

It's not a stretch to believe that providing better and more comfortable environments will improve education.

It's beyond stretching... retention is about interest and ambition and not controlled environment programmed learning... like our children are robotics in some lab... lol... just manage teh enviros an they will lernzzzzz!!!

Your drivel counters the notion that universal education is beneficial to all. Under your assumptions, the more you provide it the less interested the free riding students become. Gameface's libertarian views kick your predictable Turrets *** again without even responding. Too bad I didn't log in before seeing your post.

 

[SaltyDawg]

It's beyond stretching... retention is about interest and ambition and not controlled environment programmed learning... like our children are robotics in some lab... lol... just manage teh enviros an they will lernzzzzz!!!

Your drivel counters the notion that universal education is beneficial to all. Under your assumptions, the more you provide it the less interested the free riding students become. Gameface's libertarian views kick your predictable Turrets *** again without even responding. Too bad I didn't log in before seeing your post.

Actually The Thriller was spot on. There have been plenty of studies that show temperature and lighting (among other things) has an affect on production and learning abilities. I took a couple courses on this back in the college days but that was a while back. A quick google brought this up though:
https://www.educause.edu/EDUCAUSE+R...olume41/ThePsychologyofLearningEnviron/158100

"Previous research on the effects of such environmental variables as light, temperature, and noise on learning has yielded some predictable results that are addressed through traditional classroom design. Learning appears to be affected adversely by inadequate light, extreme temperatures, and loud noises—variables maintained within acceptable ranges in most college classrooms."

 

[The Thriller]

https://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2011/Feb/266829.html

Bad Utah teacher. Being thrifty is not the only bench mark for what is or is not a good teacher. The vast majority are good, hard working, honest teachers. However you all know there are bad ones.

*gasp*

You mean teachers are human?

There are bad x in whatever profession, location, and social structure possible. It's really not that hard to find. And it doesn't teach you anything. You could find bad pastors, bad CEOs, bad bankers, bad Presidents, bad coaches, bad students, bad teachers, bad airline pilots, bad contractors, bad garbage men......

The real issue the success story in Utah. Despite receiving less (in almost every aspect possible) Utah teachers... And to their credit, students... Are doing more with less.

 

[Stoked]

*gasp*

You mean teachers are human?

There are bad x in whatever profession, location, and social structure possible. It's really not that hard to find. And it doesn't teach you anything. You could find bad pastors, bad CEOs, bad bankers, bad Presidents, bad coaches, bad students, bad teachers, bad airline pilots, bad contractors, bad garbage men......

The real issue the success story in Utah. Despite receiving less (in almost every aspect possible) Utah teachers... And to their credit, students... Are doing more with less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhd_dKwxVs

 

[Gameface]

The school calendar may not be new, but the number of kids crammed in that building is something that keeps growing and growing.

And to say that they did it 100 years ago so we should do it today is pretty foolish. As time moves forward, things improve. For example, they didn't have computers generating heat when the school was built. They didn't have a TV in every classroom for videos which also generate heat.

We'll see if your tune changes when you have kids old enough where this affects you. Let your house get 80 or 85 degrees one day and see if you think it's okay. And then understand that a whole lot of our schools are at that temperature for most of April, almost all of May, all of June, all of August, and a good portion of September.

Yeah, I must take my position because I wouldn't benefit from the alternative. Principles have nothing to do with it. I'm just an idiot voting myself benefits until the well runs dry.

 

[Stoked]

Yeah, I must take my position because I wouldn't benefit from the alternative. Principles have nothing to do with it. I'm just an idiot voting myself benefits until the well runs dry.

Don't you know that is the way to argue? No one but them ever has an informed decision. We all get it from fox news or something else they hate.

 

[The Thriller]

Yeah, I must take my position because I wouldn't benefit from the alternative. Principles have nothing to do with it. I'm just an idiot voting myself benefits until the well runs dry.

Funny how you conveniently "forgot" to admit that you only picked out a certain part about the Utah's Foundation Paradox.

Hilarious how you're ignoring so many other posts in this thread that have called you out.

 

[The Thriller]

Don't you know that is the way to argue? No one but them ever has an informed decision. We all get it from fox news or something else they hate.

I'll tell you one way you shouldn't argue, is to pick out information and post it as fact while ignoring other information.

Game face said in post 66,

https://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=328

Utah’s Education Paradox
October 1, 2004
Utah’s education financing has long been considered an anomaly. A November 1999 Utah Foundation research report, entitled “Utah’s Education Paradox,” included two statistics that were seemingly at odds with each other. It reported that:
Utah spent more of its money on public education than most other states. In terms of spending as a percentage of all state and local government spending, it ranked 3rd in the nation, while in terms of spending as a percentage of personal income, it ranked 2nd.
Utah spent less money on each child’s education than any other state in the nation. Also, Utah’s average class size has been larger than any other state’s.
Utah’s Education Paradox is that even though Utah spends a higher percentage of its budget on education than most other states, it still spends less per student.

Yet, he "conveniently ignored" later on in the exact same article:

The education paradox was more pronounced up through the mid 1990’s than it is today... The paradox is unraveling.

At the same time that the financial paradox is unraveling, another anomaly of Utah’s education system is becoming less dramatic. Utah students have historically achieved above-average results on national tests, in spite of low per-pupil funding.

\

His data is also old.

The latest report states:

https://www.utahfoundation.org/img/pdfs/rr680.pdf

However, by the late 1990s and early 2000s the paradox lessened
as the funding effort slowed. The 2006 report showed that Utah’s
education paradox no longer existed.

This is exactly what's wrong with our society today. Folks (like gameface) will promote their political ideology and agenda at any cost. They'll purposely provide nitpicked data, outdated data, and post dishonestly.

I think people like gameface need to level here and be honest. If we're going to argue here, lets at least be honest.

Run away, like a scared lil puppy.

 

[Stoked]

I'll tell you one way you shouldn't argue, is to pick out information and post it as fact while ignoring other information.

Game face said in post 66,

https://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=328



Yet, he "conveniently ignored" later on in the exact same article:

\

His data is also old.

The latest report states:

https://www.utahfoundation.org/img/pdfs/rr680.pdf



This is exactly what's wrong with our society today. Folks (like gameface) will promote their political ideology and agenda at any cost. They'll purposely provide nitpicked data, outdated data, and post dishonestly.

I think people like gameface need to level here and be honest. If we're going to argue here, lets at least be honest.

Run away, like a scared lil puppy.

No ****? Do you carry that soapbox around with you or rent one where ever you go?

 

[SaltyDawg]

Yeah, I must take my position because I wouldn't benefit from the alternative. Principles have nothing to do with it. I'm just an idiot voting myself benefits until the well runs dry.

Well we'll see if you have the same principles when it's your kids sitting in an 85 degree classroom for 20% or 25% of the school year.

I'm not doubting these are your principles right now. I'm just doubting that you'll be so firm on these principles when you are directly affected.

You actually implied that schools don't need air conditioners, saying that they never had them before. I have little doubt that you'll soften on that stance if your own kids are sitting in a packed full, 85 degree classroom every day. Time will tell.