Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

[bordelais7]

Wait...we're talking about tax revenues on $9 million in a ~$5 BILLION budget?

Construction costs for Westlake High School went $27 million over budget just a few years back -- take a walk through it sometime. One of the nicest buildings you'll see. Spent a lot of money on designer materials and skylights and atriums. Pretty fun to spend someone else's money.

State-of-the-art climate controls keep the building at a pleasant 71 degrees all day long.

 

[bordelais7]

Also, for what it's worth, as of the 2011 budget year Utah is still top ten in the nation in percentage of budget spent on education (32%).

 

[Gameface]

False.

Why don't you look up the latest data produced by the utahfoundation?

https://www.utahfoundation.org/img/pdfs/rr680.pdf



Utah's demographics are a contributing factor. However, the paradox doesn't exist anymore since spending in education has been diverted to other programs.

I think it's pretty obvious that Utah's legislation has a pro-private/charter school agenda. Make no mistake, there is a strong lobby to divert money from public education and into the coffers of special interest.

So nice job picking out data gameface to promote your opinion. Try using updated data. And try letting facts form your opinions, not pick out outdated information to conform to your opinion.

Hay *******, did you see the post where I said it was something I had heard years ago and that I was looking for information about it? Did you see the other post where I said I wasn't finding anything about it? Then another one saying, well... here's what I could find.

Sorry I only spent 5 min looking, Thriller. It's a pretty minor point and I was going off my memory when I made my initial statement and admitted as much.

Besides, spending last per pupil while Utah taxpayers pay about what every other state taxpayer pays still illustrates the same point. The problem isn't what we're willing to spend on education, it's how many kids are in the system.

Again, pretty minor point in response to salty's pretty minor and slightly off topic point about air conditioning.

My opinion, that schools should all be private and privately funded, has very little to do with how much is spent per pupil or taxpayer. It is based on the notion that what we learn and what we are required to know should not be based on an approved list of knowledge provided by the state. For example, sex education. Some people want their kids to learn about sexuality, sexual preference, birth control, etc. While others would prefer their kids get a biology lesson in human reproduction. Currently people passionately fight about which will be taught to our children, begging the state to pick their side. Or how involved religion and religious practices are involved in school.

The info I tried to provide was trivia.

 

[Gameface]

Well we'll see if you have the same principles when it's your kids sitting in an 85 degree classroom for 20% or 25% of the school year.

I'm not doubting these are your principles right now. I'm just doubting that you'll be so firm on these principles when you are directly affected.

You actually implied that schools don't need air conditioners, saying that they never had them before. I have little doubt that you'll soften on that stance if your own kids are sitting in a packed full, 85 degree classroom every day. Time will tell.

Salty I have maintained my principles through hardship and personal suffering many times. To say that as soon as me or my family suffers I will change my position is false and insulting. The idea that my position can only be held by someone who doesn't understand the reality of the situation is stupid and does not serve you well, besides being completely wrong, of course.

 

[Gameface]

Funny how you conveniently "forgot" to admit that you only picked out a certain part about the Utah's Foundation Paradox.

Hilarious how you're ignoring so many other posts in this thread that have called you out.

You seriously think I passed over more recent and relevant data to prove a point? What point would that be? How would the more recent data contradict the imaginary point you think I was trying to make? You're an idiot.

 

[bigb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhd_dKwxVs

That's a federal offense. That guy's in big trouble.

 

[The Thriller]

Hay *******, did you see the post where I said it was something I had heard years ago and that I was looking for information about it? Did you see the other post where I said I wasn't finding anything about it? Then another one saying, well... here's what I could find.

Sorry I only spent 5 min looking, Thriller. It's a pretty minor point and I was going off my memory when I made my initial statement and admitted as much.

Besides, spending last per pupil while Utah taxpayers pay about what every other state taxpayer pays still illustrates the same point. The problem isn't what we're willing to spend on education, it's how many kids are in the system.

Again, pretty minor point in response to salty's pretty minor and slightly off topic point about air conditioning.

My opinion, that schools should all be private and privately funded, has very little to do with how much is spent per pupil or taxpayer. It is based on the notion that what we learn and what we are required to know should not be based on an approved list of knowledge provided by the state. For example, sex education. Some people want their kids to learn about sexuality, sexual preference, birth control, etc. While others would prefer their kids get a biology lesson in human reproduction. Currently people passionately fight about which will be taught to our children, begging the state to pick their side. Or how involved religion and religious practices are involved in school.

The info I tried to provide was trivia.

It took me like 2 minutes to find an updated article. Stop acting as if a simple google search is hard.

It's really not that hard to do what you did, cut and splice information to promote your opinion.

Your very article talks about how the paradox was disappearing. Yet you failed to mention that. You merely quoted the first paragraph yet failed to mention the paragraphs a few spaces below.

And yet, you CONTINUE to plow through with this "imaginary point" in bold. The very source you quoted refuted this! The very source you quoted refuted your bolded statement. It is NOT Utah's demographics. It is NOT the high birth rate/# of students in the system that creates the poor-pupil spending. You criticize others for not reading posts yet you either did the exact same or refuse to believe the very source you quoted.

Now, your opinion underlined is exactly the agenda you were trying to promote.

Hence, why I ask you to just be upfront and honest. Instead of slicing (outdated) information to try and justify poor per pupil spending. Just admit, you don't believe in public education and that's it!

It sure would have saved us a lot of time if you would have just stated that, instead of quoting the Utahfoundation.

 

[The Thriller]

You seriously think I passed over more recent and relevant data to prove a point? What point would that be? How would the more recent data contradict the imaginary point you think I was trying to make? You're an idiot.

Stop acting as if your point was imaginary.

Your point was, that Utah's demographics was the #1 factor in low per-pupil spending. Hence, the "paradox."

Yet, the very article you quoted, suggested that this paradox was disappearing due to Utah's lack of funding effort into public education... My article, just a few years newer, proved that the paradox was gone.

Your point isn't imaginary, but an opinion shared by many.

That is, "Utah's low per-pupil spending isn't the fault of the government, taxpayers, or lack of educational funding as a priority... But the direct result of Utah's high birth rate/demographics."

In reality however, this isn't true. Despite Utah's demographics, the funding is still pathetic.

 

[Stoked]

It took me like 2 minutes to find an updated article. Stop acting as if a simple google search is hard. It's really not that hard to do what you did, cut and splice information to promote your opinion.

Your very article talks about how the paradox was disappearing. Yet you failed to mention that. You merely quoted the first paragraph yet failed to mention the paragraphs a few spaces below.

Stop acting as if you are interested in a rational discussion. You and Salty are only interested in "scoring points".

 

[The Thriller]

No ****? Do you carry that soapbox around with you or rent one where ever you go?

It's not hard to see what gameface was doing.

When you see a person quote something... Then, just a few inches on the computer screen, there is more information that was purposely left out... It's really not hard to see what someone was trying to do.

Also, for what it's worth, as of the 2011 budget year Utah is still top ten in the nation in percentage of budget spent on education (32%).

The tax burdened has lessened for the majority of 10 years... Meaning, the pie has shrunk. Had tax rates maintained the same rate, there would have been much more money to dedicate to other programs, such as education.

Plus, education is too general... Meaning, despite x percentage still being dedicated to "education" much of those funds have been diverted to other destinations. Oftentimes, funds that were previously dedicated to K-12, are being absorbed by higher education facilities.

 

[Stoked]

It's not hard to see what gameface was doing.

When you see a person quote something... Then, just a few inches on the computer screen, there is more information that was purposely left out... It's really not hard to see what someone was trying to do.



The tax burdened has lessened for the majority of 10 years... Meaning, the pie has shrunk. Had tax rates maintained the same rate, there would have been much more money to dedicate to other programs, such as education.

Plus, education is too general... Meaning, despite x percentage still being dedicated to "education" much of those funds have been diverted to other destinations. Oftentimes, funds that were previously dedicated to K-12, are being absorbed by higher education facilities.

I personally have given up trying to have an actual discussion with you because whether you mean to or not you come off as more interested in gotcha comments than you do actual discussion.

 

[The Thriller]

Stop acting as if you are interested in a rational discussion. You and Salty are only interested in "scoring points".

Ummmm... I'm sorry if you disagree with the opinions here. But both salty and I have produced links and reports to our opinions about public education. If by "scoring points" indicates disspelling myths about public education, (such as Utah's # of students into the system is the #1 factor in poor per pupil spending. Or that AC helps students concentrate to learn) is considered "scoring points" then I guess we are scoring points.

In a rational discussion, one needs to be ready for opposing points of view. I only ask, that all parties provide up to date information and present it in a honest manner.

Otherwise, continue on with your "rational discussion" that AC in public schools is a waste of time....

 

[The Thriller]

I personally have given up trying to have an actual discussion with you because whether you mean to or not you come off as more interested in gotcha comments than you do actual discussion.

What factual information have you even presented?

Aside from your multiple personal attacks, the only post I've read in this thread that appears somewhat on topic is this one:

That is horribly false. Bad teachers, uninvolved parents, not properly using technology, political interference in education...all of these clearly contribute to the problem of our education.

Money alone is not the answer.

Political talking points and anecdotal data is typically not a good way to have a rational discussion with anyone. Especially over public education.

 

[Stoked]

Ummmm... I'm sorry if you disagree with the opinions here. But both salty and I have produced links and reports to our opinions about public education. If by "scoring points" indicates disspelling myths about public education, (such as Utah's # of students into the system is the #1 factor in poor per pupil spending. Or that AC helps students concentrate to learn) is considered "scoring points" then I guess we are scoring points.

In a rational discussion, one needs to be ready for opposing points of view. I only ask, that all parties provide up to date information and present it in a honest manner.

Otherwise, continue on with your "rational discussion" that AC in public schools is a waste of time....

Has nothing do do with you having a different view. If we only ever tlaked to those with the exact same views on everything **** would be boring.

It is that you are not interested in discussion. You are interested in "gotcha" replies. They are not one and the same. I am sorry that you cannot have a calm rational discussion with out snide comments.

 

[franklin]

 

[Stoked]

Otherwise, continue on with your "rational discussion" that AC in public schools is a waste of time....

See things like this right here. Childish. Not to mention the fact that I never said anythign of the kind, ever. I did not say it, imply it, hint or alllude to it in any way shape or form. If you were more interested in discussion than trying to be an *** you would see that.

Crap like that is why I never take you and Salty seriously on anything. It is why I will be disdainful of you and give you sarcastic replies. When you learn to tolerate others points of view in an adult manner let me know and I will change my approach.

That is how you soap box son.

 

[The Thriller]

See things like this right here. Childish. Not to mention the fact that I never said anythign of the kind, ever. I did not say it, imply it, hint or alllude to it in any way shape or form. If you were more interested in discussion than trying to be an *** you would see that.

Crap like that is why I never take you and Salty seriously on anything. It is why I will be disdainful of you and give you sarcastic replies. When you learn to tolerate others points of view in an adult manner let me know and I will change my approach.

That is how you soap box son.

You should read post 69...

 

[The Thriller]

Has nothing do do with you having a different view. If we only ever tlaked to those with the exact same views on everything **** would be boring.

It is that you are not interested in discussion. You are interested in "gotcha" replies. They are not one and the same. I am sorry that you cannot have a calm rational discussion with out snide comments.

Replies using updated data from the Utah Foundation are not gotcha replies. Unless of course, you disagree with their findings, then I guess you could characterize their findings as "gotcha replies" and whatever nonsense you're trying to describe them as.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Mississippi doesn't have a lottery either, but that is probably because they want people to gamble at the casinos more.

 

[Stoked]

Mississippi doesn't have a lottery either, but that is probably because they want people to gamble at the casinos more.

Yeah that always struck me as odd. In all actuallity the casinos were placed in Tunica County because Desoto County (the county that boarders Memphis) would not allow the casinos.