Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

[TroutBum]

I haven't read this whole thing, so if I am double-dipping some things, sorry.

False.

Why don't you look up the latest data produced by the utahfoundation?

https://www.utahfoundation.org/img/pdfs/rr680.pdf

Utah's demographics are a contributing factor. However, the paradox doesn't exist anymore since spending in education has been diverted to other programs.

I think it's pretty obvious that Utah's legislation has a pro-private/charter school agenda. Make no mistake, there is a strong lobby to divert money from public education and into the coffers of special interest.

So nice job picking out data gameface to promote your opinion. Try using updated data. And try letting facts form your opinions, not pick out outdated information to conform to your opinion.

FYI, your "updated data" is 6 years old. Bang up job.

I still think preferentially taxing the poorest and least educated people is one of the worst suggestions ever--even if it's a self-selected "opt in". Again, if you want more funds for education there are many better ways to achieve that.

And frankly, it's a complete red herring saying that the funds will go toward education. The only reason people claim that (in my opinion) is to get others to agree to hold a lottery. Almost certainly what will happen is that the funds that have historically gone towards education will be reduced, and the total amount going towards education will be basically the same.



And if/when they win some money in the lottery I guess it's money coming back into the state. The net is pretty miniscule as I said in an earlier post.

I love how you state that only poor/stupid people gamble or play the lottery. Perhaps stats prove that that might be true, but why would you come out and say something like that?


One more thing, since we're talking about money coming to Utah, etc. I want to know how many of you that drive to ID to play the lotto ONLY spend money on the lotto. I don't know about you guys, but I spent double on food, gas, and snacks than I spent on tickets -- All in Idaho. How many gas station owners would love to have the lotto? I'd bet all of them.

 

[TroutBum]

Also, Salty and Thriller are agreeing/arguing the same points. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know...

 

[SaltyDawg]

One more thing, since we're talking about money coming to Utah, etc. I want to know how many of you that drive to ID to play the lotto ONLY spend money on the lotto. I don't know about you guys, but I spent double on food, gas, and snacks than I spent on tickets -- All in Idaho. How many gas station owners would love to have the lotto? I'd bet all of them.

I usually load up on Idaho beer whenever I go. Better than Utah grocery store beer, and cheaper than Utah liquor store beer (and it's kept cold). Plus the gas, food, and so on.

 

[TroutBum]

I usually load up on Idaho beer whenever I go. Better than Utah grocery store beer, and cheaper than Utah liquor store beer (and it's kept cold). Plus the gas, food, and so on.

No need for anyone else to agree with you here, since everyone does what you and I did. Nobody seems to bring that up though when they're arguing about the "millions that won't even make a dent" or whatever the crap they're talking about.

 

[SaltyDawg]

No need for anyone else to agree with you here, since everyone does what you and I did. Nobody seems to bring that up though when they're arguing about the "millions that won't even make a dent" or whatever the crap they're talking about.

Well knock on wood that we don't get speeding tickets next time we're up there, lol.

 

[franklin]

I usually load up on Idaho beer whenever I go. Better than Utah grocery store beer, and cheaper than Utah liquor store beer (and it's kept cold). Plus the gas, food, and so on.

No need for anyone else to agree with you here, since everyone does what you and I did. Nobody seems to bring that up though when they're arguing about the "millions that won't even make a dent" or whatever the crap they're talking about.

I don't drive to Idaho for the lottery because it's a huge waste of fuel and I love the environment.


Just kidding

 

[colton]

I love how you state that only poor/stupid people gamble or play the lottery.

I didn't state that.

 

[colton]

So, since my earlier post asking for people who are in favor of the lottery but otherwise against gambling, or vice versa, not one person has stepped forward. Interesting.

 

[Stoked]

So, since my earlier post asking for people who are in favor of the lottery but otherwise against gambling, or vice versa, not one person has stepped forward. Interesting.

I stepped forward. I am not for one and against the other but I gave a reason why they are different.

 

[The Thriller]

Due to being negative repped, here ya go Trout! From June of 2011

https://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?p=726

In this report, as in previous reports published by Utah Foundation regarding education funding, funding effort is defined as public education revenues per $1,000 of personal income. This measure shows how willing Utahns and their elected officials are to collectively commit tax dollars to education. It also shows whether education funds are growing in line with the overall growth of Utah’s economy. The new data from the Census Bureau show that in 2009, Utah’s education funding effort was just under $48 per $1,000 of personal income, meaning that taxes paid for public education equaled about 4.8% of all income earned in the state. Utah’s national ranking for this effort is 26th, or right about the national average.

This ranking is a marked shift from the mid-1990s and previous decades, when Utah placed within the top 10 states for K-12 education funding effort.

The issue isn't the #1 of students we have but the EFFORT to fund public education that is unfortunately in decline... And not just because of the recession... But has been in decline for almost two decades.

 

[PearlWatson]

I believe that, deep down, most members are good people who want to do the right thing. But church culture is very judgmental - and puts a lot of pressure on them. If I'm being honest, I think the culture and expectations of the membership are more of a factor in how mormons act (and how their actions are perceived) than the actual doctrine. IMO, this makes people lose sight of the important things because they're too busy focusing on all the little things you mentioned.

Again I agree. They are good people and I know that. They are getting to focused on the condemnation and not enough on the love. Just becasue you associate with someone does not have to mean you support everything they do.

Count me among that number. Sometimes I sit in church and think "with dumb ****s like you, it's no wonder people don't like Mormons". I have said on a number of occasions that while I am a Mormon, I don't really like most Mormon people.

This conversation is comedy gold.

"I don't like other Mormon people because they are so judgemental and unloving!"

 

[PearlWatson]

The issue isn't the #1 of students we have but the EFFORT to fund public education that is unfortunately in decline... And not just because of the recession... But has been in decline for almost two decades.

Isn't that a different comparison?
That is comparing how much is spent on education based on all income earned in state
vs
How much of the state budget is spent on education

 

[Stoked]

This conversation is comedy gold.

"I don't like other Mormon people because they are so judgemental and unloving!"

Heaven forbid we have an opinion. But blow me. How about that?

 

[colton]

I stepped forward. I am not for one and against the other but I gave a reason why they are different.

I also feel they are different in some senses--but when push comes to shove my vote on both would be the same (against).

I just think it's interesting that even for people like you and me that feel there's some sort of difference, we're not in favor of one and against the other. So maybe we're fooling ourselves. Worth thinking about.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I also feel they are different in some senses--but when push comes to shove my vote on both would be the same (against).

I just don't understand why people like you care what people like me do with our own time and money.

 

[Stoked]

I also feel they are different in some senses--but when push comes to shove my vote on both would be the same (against).

I just think it's interesting that even for people like you and me that feel there's some sort of difference, we're not in favor of one and against the other. So maybe we're fooling ourselves. Worth thinking about.

I would vote to allow both. I can see people not wanting anything past the lottery though. That brings all sorts of additional problem. However the lottery brings nothing but more jobs and revenue imo. The people doing all that already live here.

 

[Stoked]

Heaven forbid we have an opinion. But blow me. How about that?

Certain people did not like this comment. Fair enough. An inside track on how to take my posts...if they are rude or something it is usually me messing around. I have no ill will or anger towards anyone on this site. Never have and I never will.

 

[asian_roger]

Forget the lotteries, Wendover is only an hour and a half away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[colton]

I just don't understand why people like you care what people like me do with our own time and money.

Regarding gambling: because legalizing gambling has definite negative societal impacts. In all honestly I was much less anti-gambling until one time I was driving through Reno and listening to the radio. Reno is not that big of a city, yet in the time it took to drive from where I was getting Reno radio on one side to where I could no longer get Reno radio on the other side I must have heard 4 separate commercials for Gambler's Anonymous. If gambling is addictive enough and if addicts have enough problems that help groups like G.A. have to be that pronounced, then it's a serious issue for society. People don't live in a vacuum.

Regarding lottery: because (as frequently posted in this thread) it's a stupid way of raising funds for the state.

Edit: In light of my "it's interesting that..." comment above, it's likely true that my feelings on both of those issues are colored by my religious views as well. But I really didn't think of religion at all until after I had written this post.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Regarding gambling: because legalizing gambling has definite negative societal impacts. In all honestly I was much less anti-gambling until one time I was driving through Reno and listening to the radio. Reno is not that big of a city, yet in the time it took to drive from where I was getting Reno radio on one side to where I could no longer get Reno radio on the other side I must have heard 4 separate commercials for Gambler's Anonymous. If gambling is addictive enough and if addicts have enough problems that help groups like G.A. have to be that pronounced, then it's a serious issue for society. People don't live in a vacuum.

Regarding lottery: because (as frequently posted in this thread) it's a stupid way of raising funds for the state.

Edit: In light of my "it's interesting that..." comment above, it's likely true that my feelings on both of those issues are colored by my religious views as well. But I really didn't think of religion at all until after I had written this post.

My thoughts are: So what if gambling is addictive? And so what if a lottery is a stupid way of raising funds?

Again, I just don't understand why people like you care what people like me do with our time and money.

If I want to be a degenerate gambler, and even get addicted to gambling, what business is it of yours? I don't need some stranger to protect me from myself. I'm a full grown man, who earns his own money, pays his own taxes, and lives in his own house. Why shouldn't I be able to become addicted to gambling if I want, and what business is it of yours if I do choose that path?

You're totally okay with me "betting" money on the stock market, right? I don't understand what the difference is, and why it's anyone else's job to protect me from the risks of either.

And even if it was a huge concern that I may become addicted to gambling, as has been pointed out, Wendover and Idaho are both only 1.5 hours away. Anyone who will become a degenerate gambler likely already is one.