Jazz V Spurs II Why a back to back with the same team only Stern knows

[Kenwood]

While they're the 9th worst team right now, there are a few teams in the EC (Detriot, NJ, Toronto) with comparable records that are actually trying to win games. I think The Warriors will finish anywhere from the 5-7th worst record. So it will take the luck of the draw to get that pick - which I'm not counting on.

It's not over yet. Lopez is done for the year in NJ (and I keep waiting for Deron to check out mentally...maybe he won't because it's a contract year, but it wouldn't affect his offers anyway). Bargnani (20ppg) is possibly done in Toronto. Stuckey just got hurt in Detroit last game and if that's problematic at all, maybe they shut him down. Other teams didn't start tanking quite as early, but eventually most bottom 10 teams throw in the towel.

My revised prediction is between 6-8th worst, with an outside chance at 9th if Detroit somehow doesn't pass them. I don't think they reach 5th worst with Sacramento three wins behind.

 

[The Thriller]

You also know that you aren't and never have been an athlete when you think it's acceptable to lose on purpose. That would be like sucking at your job on purpose so you get fired and allow your company to "hire" someone that will be better for te company. You wanna talk about dumb.........

Who said anything about losing on purpose?

 

[Hedda Gambler]

As for Utah's own pick it will probably fall somewhere between 14 (lottery) and 18 (8th seed). These positions are interchangeable. All picks are basically a crap shoot after 10 so I'm not that concerned either way. However, if Hayward, Burks, Favors and Kanter are in fact "our guys" then if you can get them in the playoffs this year and perhaps maybe win a game or two, that scenario benefits our team more in the long run.

I`m surprised that a lot of people still don`t know that we only get our own pick this year if it`s a lottery pick. If we get into the play-offs, it`s Minnesota`s pick this year, not ours.

 

[Nate505]

Bush league? Putting his team in better position to play well in the playoffs and maybe win another ring? Please, then give me Bush league.

I've never seen in my life a coach rest his three best players, in a sport where leaving out one of your best players is critical, in a game that had implications. It was an insult to be honest.

 

[The Thriller]

I`m surprised that a lot of people still don`t know that we only get our own pick this year if it`s a lottery pick. If we get into the play-offs, it`s Minnesota`s pick this year, not ours.

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[Hedda Gambler]

I've never seen in my life a coach rest his three best players, in a sport where leaving out one of your best players is critical, in a game that had implications. It was an insult to be honest.

I really think that it was a totally fine thing to do. If the Spurs were out of every race I could argue that it would be an unfair move, but the loss could actually cost them the first seed in the west. Pop decided that keeping their three best players healthy was more important than ensuring that they win this game and with their schedule over the next week or so, I really don`t blame them. Too bad for Houston, Phoenix and Denver, but we cannot be blamed for this. Pop and the Spurs did what they thought was best for their team and their season. There is really nothing more to it.

 

[candrew]

I`m surprised that a lot of people still don`t know that we only get our own pick this year if it`s a lottery pick. If we get into the play-offs, it`s Minnesota`s pick this year, not ours.

I forgot about that. Doesn't change my position though in regards how this team should be rebuilding going forward.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Pops would improve the Bobcats by at least 15 wins.

It's not just Pop, the whole organization is run well. They draft well, develop players well, and only bring in players who will commit to what they do.

 

[Brown Notes]

I really think that it was a totally fine thing to do. If the Spurs were out of every race I could argue that it would be an unfair move, but the loss could actually cost them the first seed in the west. Pop decided that keeping their three best players healthy was more important than ensuring that they win this game and with their schedule over the next week or so, I really don`t blame them. Too bad for Houston, Phoenix and Denver, but we cannot be blamed for this. Pop and the Spurs did what they thought was best for their team and their season. There is really nothing more to it.

It's an insult to the team and especially the fans who pay to see these stars play.

But I don't think he did it just to be insulting. I thought Pop's motivation was to see those guys play with intensity for 48 which they did. Utah played like that for 5 minutes and won the game.

 

[NCJazz]

I`m surprised that a lot of people still don`t know that we only get our own pick this year if it`s a lottery pick. If we get into the play-offs, it`s Minnesota`s pick this year, not ours.

I guess some people think getting the 8th seed and getting squashed in the first round is a good thing and potentially leaving us with 0 first round picks is not a bad thing.

 

[JazzFanNBama]

Who said anything about losing on purpose?

Ok, so we don't want to win, but we don't want to lose on purpose. Interesting. So we complain when we win because we get no first round pick. But we don't need to lose on purpose. So basically there's no way to make you happy other than to play our best and lose. Again, interesting.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Ok, so we don't want to win, but we don't want to lose on purpose. Interesting. So we complain when we win because we get no first round pick. But we don't need to lose on purpose. So basically there's no way to make you happy other than to play our best and lose. Again, interesting.

There is a way to make him happy but I'd rather not get into the details, it involves a bull whip, hand cuffs, a gallon of ice cream (preferably with chunks) a rhino (preferably stuffed) and for some odd reason his mom (Trout is an exceptable substitute).

 

[Scorpjazz]

I guess some people think getting the 8th seed and getting squashed in the first round is a good thing and potentially leaving us with 0 first round picks is not a bad thing.

Me, sorry.
Obviously no 1st round picks is a bad thing. But I cant apologize for feeling winning always trumps any and all other concerns.
Im kinda bummed that if we get the 8th seed , however, the teams dont really play each other. The Jazz send a memo to Stern stating since the #1 seed is the #1 seed, we forfeit. It was cool back when the teams played the first round and geniuses didnt already know the future.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Terrible basketball game. Jazz were crap, SAS didn't know what they were doing since their traditional top-options weren't playing, but they still played better basketball than the Jazz did, but the Jazz had more talent, home court, and a hotter hot streak at a more important time.

I love the Spurs. If you don't want your team to basically be the Spurs, you're an idiot. The worst mistakes they've made in the last decade include trading the rights to Luis Scola away for reasons that I still don't understand, getting Richard Jefferson for nothing, and extending Richard Jefferson. But they still drafted Luis Scola, and they got what was by most people's account a very very good player for nothing. Pop is my favorite coach of all-time, for every reason that is right (basketball) and not for any reasons that don't actually matter ('he coached my favorite team!').

I used to hate the Spurs, but I either I grew up and learned the game, or I have Stockholm Syndrome. Outside of the Jazz, I am rooting for the Spurs to win the championship this year. "LEBRON WADE GRIFFFFFIN!!! CP3! D12! TRADE DEMAND! BIG MARKET! OMG GRIFFFFFFFINNNNN!!! Kris Humphries??? KOBE TAKES 30 SHOTS AGAIN!!! ANDREW BYNUM IS THE BEST CENTER IN THE NBA LOL JK!!! CARMELO ANTHONY! MECCA OF BASKETBALL OMG NY IS JUST TEH BEST OK!!! LAMAR ODOM! WESTBROOK GOT IN ANOTHER FIGHT WITH A TEAMMATE!!! ROSE EVEN THOUGH THE BULLS ARE STILL REALLY GOOD WITHOUT HIM!!!!!! oh yeah and the Spurs were really good at basketball again, and better than everyone at it, actually."

 

[sepanol]

I'm sure I'm about to get berate because of what I'm about to say, but oh well. It is beyond me how some of you people think that it's perfectly acceptable to "tank" this season away so we get the lottery pick. I would have to guess that the people that think that's acceptable didn't play sports EVER! If you did I dang sure wouldn't have wanted you on my team. I want to win. I want to win today, tomorrow, two years from now. I get the fact that we aren't going to win the West or win it all. However, we have a very young team that is trying to grow up. Hence the ups and downs we've experienced over this year. I'm a firm believer we can build with what we have. I know we are missing a piece or two to make this a complete team. I also think that a trip to the playoffs would help this team more than some maybe even most on this board believe. I'm just glad to know our players don't think like some of you do.
Rant over.

it is good to win, but lets be realistic, we are not in space jam , if it is 99 percent sure that we are gonna get kicked out in the first round, and our young players except Hayward will most probably not take enough playing time to get playoff experience, then why we bother ourselves? Just for 2 games revenue?
We can move 4-5 seeds forward in draft, and get a better player, if nothing, we can combine it with gsw pick and get a higher pick and a really good player.

Anyway it is obvious we are not tanking, so we will probably finish 9th. With 13th-14th pick i dont expect that good of a player, but at least i hope that we use this draft to fill the missing pieces for our future team and move the extra pieces (like Big Al and Harris) so that we can start over our journey for being a future contender.

 

[JazzFanNBama]

it is good to win, but lets be realistic, we are not in space jam , if it is 99 percent sure that we are gonna get kicked out in the first round, and our young players except Hayward will most probably not take enough playing time to get playoff experience, then why we bother ourselves? Just for 2 games revenue?
We can move 4-5 seeds forward in draft, and get a better player, if nothing, we can combine it with gsw pick and get a higher pick and a really good player.

Anyway it is obvious we are not tanking, so we will probably finish 9th. With 13th-14th pick i dont expect that good of a player, but at least i hope that we use this draft to fill the missing pieces for our future team and move the extra pieces (like Big Al and Harris) so that we can start over our journey for being a future contender.

Without a doubt the best post in this thread as far as the "getting a lottery pick" argument goes. To clarify my stance on the situation because I think some may misunderstand. I understand wanting a lottery pick to try to better the team. I'm of the belief that any scenario of us making the playoffs or getting a lottery pick are good for us. It's just the "tanking" part that really aggravates me. I'm just totally against it.

 

[freakazoid]

However, if Hayward, Burks, Favors and Kanter are in fact "our guys" then if you can get them in the playoffs this year and perhaps maybe win a game or two, that scenario benefits our team more in the long run.
So Utah's second phase of rebuilding should come from trades and free agency - not the draft.

I don't dismiss the value of playoff experience, but for THIS team in it's CURRENT situation, upgrading our roster is the greater benefit, and it's not really close. People forget things like when we traded Giricek + pick for Korver. Keeping the pick can help us upgrade our roster, and it doesn't mean we have to add another rookie.

I`m surprised that a lot of people still don`t know that we only get our own pick this year if it`s a lottery pick. If we get into the play-offs, it`s Minnesota`s pick this year, not ours.

I forgot about that. Doesn't change my position though in regards how this team should be rebuilding going forward.

Not surprised by this in the least. I'd say 90% of fans who want playoffs over keeping our pick, just flat out don't really understand the whole situation. I'm not trying to insult anyone, I just don't think most fans really follow everything that closely that they can make an informed opinion. The other 10% are people who know they're wrong, but they want the playoffs so bad, they let their hearts do the thinking for them instead of their brain. There's nothing wrong with wanting playoffs, but the arguments of playoffs being more valuable than assets just doesn't fly.

That's why everyone making that argument goes out of their way to downplay the value of the pick, by saying things like we don't need more rookies, when that clearly isn't the only possibility when using it.

Using both picks to trade up, or using one of them in a trade for another vet are definite possibilties. If we can make a move like this, I think we definitely have a chance to win enough games next year to get HC in the first round. That's the only way this team gets to the second round, as we are a pretty crappy road team. If we make the playoffs this year, I think there's a good chance our FO sticks with the idea of keeping our current roster, and just trying to build on it. IMO, that puts us in the likely position of being in pretty much the same spot next year. Borderline playoff team, that even if we make the playoffs, we're nothing more than and automatic 1st round exit.

 

[The Thriller]

Ok, so we don't want to win, but we don't want to lose on purpose. Interesting. So we complain when we win because we get no first round pick. But we don't need to lose on purpose. So basically there's no way to make you happy other than to play our best and lose. Again, interesting.

Of course we don't want to lose on purpose.

We want this team to play hard, play the young players more, develop them, and lose heart breakers.

I want this team to lose, since getting draft picks and upgrading this team via trades, draft, FA is more beneficial to this team than being punked out of the playoffs in the first round and losing all the draft picks this year. This draft is deep and it would be a shame to be unable to capitalize somehow.

Play hard, develop the young guys, develop good habits, and lose in good close competitive games against superior teams. That is what would make me happy. Instead, I see our team play in cruise control through most of the first halves, rely too much on vets like Al Jefferson, don't develop good habits (Kanter still brings the ball down low. Favors still misses inside gimmies. Al is a complete disaster defensively, etc)... and (barely) win against D-league teams (like the Spurs without their Big 3). That makes me unhappy.

 

[sgjazzfan]

Without a doubt the best post in this thread as far as the "getting a lottery pick" argument goes. To clarify my stance on the situation because I think some may misunderstand. I understand wanting a lottery pick to try to better the team. I'm of the belief that any scenario of us making the playoffs or getting a lottery pick are good for us. It's just the "tanking" part that really aggravates me. I'm just totally against it.

I don't think anyone has advocated tanking or losing on purpose once, so you might be the one misunderstanding. I think everyone would agree that either scenario is good for us. Most of us, however, believer that a pick is much more positive than the playoffs and that making the playoffs has us losing a pick, therefore losing that positive you would have had. If you take a small positive and subtract a larger positive, you get a negative. Thats why we would prefer if the Jazz didn't make the playoffs. Nobody has asked them to try to lose.

 

[Brown Notes]

If this team wins 3 playoff games this argument will become absurd on the other side.