OKC or San Antonio?

[franklin]

Spurs in first place. Jazz going parachooing.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My gut just says Spurs is the more winnable match-up, even though they wiped the floor with us during the regular season. Memphis beat them last year, and I could see us being very comparable to last year's Memphis team. The only difference is that Spurs are a good deal more healthy this season, which is a pretty big difference.

Still, we have a pretty big advantage (or we should) in the low post with Jefferson, Favors, Sap, and Kanter.

 

[franklin]

Why don't you just put the gun to my head and pull the trigger Cy?

You son of a bitch!

 

[spycam1]

I never suggested that the 8th seed was the ceiling of this team, merely that this team's ceiling is nowhere near championship level, regardless of how much playoff experience it got as it is currently constructed. And you continue to ignore my points: we're rebuilding, whether you like it or not. Favors, Kanter, Burks, and Hayward are the future of this team. Guys like Harris and Jefferson will most likely be gone after next season, yet they're the ones who will be getting that "oh so holy" playoff experience you keep referring to, not our young core.

I have asked you what your plan is to win a championship, since you apparently have no faith in the draft, and you ignored me. So I asked you again, and you still failed to answer the question. If you wont even answer the question that is at the heart of what we're talking about, then I'm done with this conversation. Good bye.

 

[spycam1]

My gut just says Spurs is the more winnable match-up, even though they wiped the floor with us during the regular season. Memphis beat them last year, and I could see us being very comparable to last year's Memphis team. The only difference is that Spurs are a good deal more healthy this season, which is a pretty big difference.

Still, we have a pretty big advantage (or we should) in the low post with Jefferson, Favors, Sap, and Kanter.

My gut and brain both say OKC.

 

[YB85]

Making the playoffs > late lottery pick. Let these guys get their teeth kicked in and get a taste of what it takes to be a successful team. If it's the Spurs or Thunder, bring it on. So they have no chance? Big ****ing deal.

 

[JazzFanNBama]

Just because there is a chance doesn't mean we should become that team that decides taking a chance on the lottery is better than taking a chance in the playoffs. I feel confident in saying that is a dumb way to run a team because so many franchises have tried your way and failed horribly. In fact, of the teams that are lining up for the lottery this season, most have spent a good portion of the last decade stuck right in the lottery.

I wonder why that is?

So, yes, I'll happily take a playoff berth over a crapshoot pick at 14th that may or may not pan out and may or may not prove to be that beneficiary to our franchise in the long run. The fact so many of you are content with losing just because you want to draft in the lottery proves to me that this type of mindset becomes increasingly difficult to break. It's like smoking crack. Once you get the taste of the lottery, and fool yourself into believing that this is a sustainable and successful way of building a team, then when you find yourself in the same position next year, you're again wishing for the lottery. A year from there, bring on the lottery again! Who wants to be in the playoffs as an 8th seed anyway?

Before you realize it, this franchise has tolerated losing for so long to build up their team in the lottery, that they've got a loser mentality, a loser coach, loser fans and no playoff berths. That's how franchises like Charlotte and Golden State and Sacramento languish in the bottom-half of their conferences year in and year out. Oh sure, there's always that chance you get to draft a Chris Paul or Deron Williams or a LeBron James that can instantly remake your franchise. But that's not an option in this year's draft. We know, regardless of how deep it is, Utah's pick is going to be far more riskier than those picks I just mentioned.

You can pretend that the missing link is somewhere in this lottery. You can pretend that Utah will become an instant contender with just one pick. But I won't. I've seen too many teams, too many times, fail at doing what you're suggesting. So, as a fan, the first thing I want from my team is one that competes night in and night out. I've gotten that. I am excited that when all looked lost, this team still bounced back and still positioned themselves for a playoff berth, even though most had written them off a week ago, a month ago...hell, they were written off before this season started.

As a fan, this is what I want to see. Not a team that is okay with losing on the chance (and you admit it's a chance) they'll be able to better their position in the draft.

The next thing I want to see is a team that understands winning. So many franchises don't get winning. They don't know it. It's foreign to them. They have so many failed seasons that everyone, from the fans to the players to the coaches to the front office, seems to have forgotten what it takes to win. What I know is that one of our better players, who may or may not be the future, has never played in a playoff game, even though he's been in the league since 2004. What I know is that our head coach has never coached a playoff game in his life. What I know is that I have not sat in the ESA during a meaningful playoff game since the first-round series of the 2010 NBA Playoffs. I like that. I like the anticipation of a playoff game. I like being able to watch my team surprise. I like the emotion of a potential victory, even if I know deep down it's not going to amount to jack ****.

That's what being a fan is all about. You want to cheer for a team that consistently plays for the lottery, well you've got a helluva lot of options in front of you. But I want to cheer for a team that fights tooth and nail to make the postseason, even if it means they get owned in the first round, even if means they miss out on some potential that doesn't even exist yet because we don't know how the lottery will shake out.

That's why I cheer and I'm glad I'm cheering for a team that recognizes what this game is all about. If they don't make the playoffs, I would rather it come fighting down to the last second than conceding, weeks ago, their lot in life. This year's Jazz haven't accepted or conceded anything and have decided to create their own outcome.

Finally, you don't cheer for a team that gets knocked out in the first round year after year. In fact, Utah has only lost in the first round of the playoffs a handful of times and only once since their return to the playoffs in 2007 (2009). Every other year has been marked by a trip to the second round or Western Conference Finals. Which, I'm assuming, is a far better playoff success rate than most teams in the league.

What a great post! I feel exactly the same way. Well done sir!

 

[franklin]

It's like smoking crack. Once you get the taste of the lottery, and fool yourself into believing that this is a sustainable and successful way of building a team, then when you find yourself in the same position next year, you're again wishing for the lottery. A year from there, bring on the lottery again! Who wants to be in the playoffs as an 8th seed anyway?

Right, because people who smoke crack believe they are one special rock away from smoking the fountain of youth.

Everything you've said is what fans of mediocre franchises tell themselves every year.

And sorry, not everyone is the T-Wolves (who are actually in a pretty good position moving forward) and Warriors. Teams do not just always get stuck in the lottery once they enter it like you claim. Honestly, if we were to miss the playoffs this year, do you think we would be doomed to stay in the lottery for all eternity? Everyone who wants to get a pick or two this year wants that to be IT, no more lottery--get a final young piece or two, develop them, and hope for the best.

That's a contradictory stance anyway. They're saying if this group misses the playoffs and gets a draft pick then they'll be worse off than this group making the playoffs and not getting a draft pick. You either believe in this group or you don't. Two less wins isn't going to drastically alter the internal culture to the point of endless despair. It's two wins.

 

[spycam1]

Right, because people who smoke crack believe they are one special rock away from smoking the fountain of youth.



That's a contradictory stance anyway. They're saying if this group misses the playoffs and gets a draft pick then they'll be worse off than this group making the playoffs and not getting a draft pick. You either believe in this group or you don't. Two less wins isn't going to drastically alter the internal culture to the point of endless despair. It's two wins.

Yup.

 

[Sean]

If that's the case, then any team that can't lock down a top-three playoff seed should just opt out of the NBA playoffs anyway, right? I mean, if two less wins, and a playoff berth for the first time in two seasons, isn't going to drastically alter anything, why even try next year or the year after that? Unless we're confident, down the road, maybe five years from now, Utah will be contending for the number one seed, anything less than contending is fruitless.

I don't buy that.

 

[Stoked]

If that's the case, then any team that can't lock down a top-three playoff seed should just opt out of the NBA playoffs anyway, right? I mean, if two less wins, and a playoff berth for the first time in two seasons, isn't going to drastically alter anything, why even try next year or the year after that? Unless we're confident, down the road, maybe five years from now, Utah will be contending for the number one seed, anything less than contending is fruitless.

I don't buy that.

Damn man you are right! Utah clearly has a losing culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Utah_Jazz_seasons

I can understand your arguement and I do not think you are wrong about wanting to make the playoffs. I just think you are exaggerating about what missing it this one time will mean. This is the Jazz they do not settle for mediocrity.

 

[spycam1]

If that's the case, then any team that can't lock down a top-three playoff seed should just opt out of the NBA playoffs anyway, right? I mean, if two less wins, and a playoff berth for the first time in two seasons, isn't going to drastically alter anything, why even try next year or the year after that? Unless we're confident, down the road, maybe five years from now, Utah will be contending for the number one seed, anything less than contending is fruitless.

I don't buy that.

Anything less than at least putting yourself in position to be a future contender is fruitless.

You seem to be satisfied with consistently being a good team, even if it never actually leads to anything. I'm not. I want titles, and unlike you, I'm willing to make the sacrifices that might actually achieve that.

 

[margodydek]

Poppovich scares me more than any players on OKC.

 

[mrob]

Anything less than at least putting yourself in position to be a future contender is fruitless.

You seem to be satisfied with consistently being a good team, even if it never actually leads to anything. I'm not. I want titles, and unlike you, I'm willing to make the sacrifices that might actually achieve that.

So giving these players a chance to be a playoff team and actually go up against other playoff teams in the playoffs isn't putting them in a position to be a future contender? Actually that's exactly what it does...

 

[Sean]

Anything less than at least putting yourself in position to be a future contender is fruitless.

You seem to be satisfied with consistently being a good team, even if it never actually leads to anything. I'm not. I want titles, and unlike you, I'm willing to make the sacrifices that might actually achieve that.

I'm satisfied with winning. You're satisfied with a team that will lose to put itself in position to maybe draft a pick that might, though we don't know, change things so dramatically that, down the road, we're possibly a contender. That is a losing mentality. Playing for the lottery, because grabbing that 8th seed isn't good enough, in maybe the most ironic way possible, is defeatist personified.

Forget that Utah is still technically playing for the sixth seed, which opens up their playoff possibilities a bit more, or that this team, which has shown some solid progress, but not consistency, is a few bad performances away from contending for home court in the first round, we should just embrace this idea that the 14th pick is game changer here and so much better than the playoffs. I disagree. Never, ever, ever give up on a chance to make the playoffs. Ever. Only loser franchises accept that logic. Yes, some luck out - but many don't. I don't cheer for a loser franchise. I cheer for a franchise that strives to win those two extra games because they know the playoffs are infinitely better than the 14th pick in the NBA lottery - no matter how stacked or deep it is.

 

[YB85]

I'm satisfied with winning. You're satisfied with a team that will lose to put itself in position to maybe draft a pick that might, though we don't know, change things so dramatically that, down the road, we're possibly a contender. That is a losing mentality. Playing for the lottery, because grabbing that 8th seed isn't good enough, in maybe the most ironic way possible, is defeatist personified.

Forget that Utah is still technically playing for the sixth seed, which opens up their playoff possibilities a bit more, or that this team, which has shown some solid progress, but not consistency, is a few bad performances away from contending for home court in the first round, we should just embrace this idea that the 14th pick is game changer here and so much better than the playoffs. I disagree. Never, ever, ever give up on a chance to make the playoffs. Ever. Only loser franchises accept that logic. Yes, some luck out - but many don't. I don't cheer for a loser franchise. I cheer for a franchise that strives to win those two extra games because they know the playoffs are infinitely better than the 14th pick in the NBA lottery - no matter how stacked or deep it is.

Preach on, Sean, preach on!

 

[spycam1]

So giving these players a chance to be a playoff team and actually go up against other playoff teams in the playoffs isn't putting them in a position to be a future contender? Actually that's exactly what it does...

Talent wins championships. This draft has more talent in it then any draft in recent memory before it, or in any draft expected to follow it for quite some time.

Yes, you have to start somewhere, and getting a 6-8 seed is certainly a stepping stone. But I'd rather gather as much talent as possible while we still can, then worry about the playoffs, not obsess about getting that 8th seed this year, then in a few years find out that we just don't have enough talent to get over the hump.

And again, your whole point revolves around the idea that if we get playoff experience now, it will help us develop for the future. Well, the majority of those holy playoff minutes are going to go to guys who we can't expect to be part of the future plans anyway. If it was Favors, Kanter, Hayward, and Burks leading our playoff march, then I would be all for it. But it's not, is it?

 

[margodydek]

Anything less than at least putting yourself in position to be a future contender is fruitless.

You seem to be satisfied with consistently being a good team, even if it never actually leads to anything. I'm not. I want titles, and unlike you, I'm willing to make the sacrifices that might actually achieve that.

So what key pieces has Chicago added via the draft since they sneaked into the playoffs 3 years ago (with a .500 record mind you) as a 7th seed and pushed Boston to 7 games, that has now made them title contenders?

OKC was the same thing two years ago when they got in as the 8th seed.

I'd venture to say that 9 times out of 10, playoff experience is more valuable than a 14th pick.

 

[spycam1]

I'm satisfied with winning.

Winning what? Regular season games? One game in the first round? Well, if you're honestly satisfied with that, then you must be a very happy man.

Would you answer my question already? This is the FOURTH time I have asked you: with the way this team is currently constructed, what do you logically view as the best method moving forward for us to become a contender?

 

[franklin]

So giving these players a chance to be a playoff team and actually go up against other playoff teams in the playoffs isn't putting them in a position to be a future contender? Actually that's exactly what it does...

They can't beat them in the regular season. You think getting utterly dominated in a playoff series is going to set these kids up better next year? San Antonio will project the dominant energy. It isn't going to reason with it, won't argue with it, just dominate it. Psssst. Psssst. Psssst.

Becoming the San Antonio Dog Whisperer's bitch is going to get inside heads and discourage the hell out of these kids to the point where they don't believe a championship is possible in Utah. Then they look for the exit and then we're back to "we have a winning mentality and will try to get back to the 8th seed next season".

This team needs to either attract a game changer or draft one. The players know this so you might as well start writing your good-bye cards just like we did with Boozer.