NAOS
Well-Known Member
SLC is where I'm from, pal. I spent great years there. You think I like that it looks like the chaste version of a $10 whore?
/ducks for cover
How the Mormons Make Money
- Thread starter Archie Moses
- Start date
SLC is where I'm from, pal. I spent great years there. You think I like that it looks like the chaste version of a $10 whore?
/ducks for cover
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
As someone who's trying to get back into church, tithing has always been hard for me to pay. Not because I don't believe in paying it and the blessings of paying it, it's just I'm way too selfish with my money.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
So you think the City Creek was a mistake as well?
Hartsock
Banned
I would say its at least a $25 dollar whore. But maybe my whore value meter is broken.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
It depends on your perspective, obviously. I think the Mormon church could afford it; they obviously had the power to do it (in a voting district in which there isn't a Mormon majority and where there was plenty of sentiment against it); so, it looks pretty good for them.
This is part of the landscaped architectural dream that goes all the way back to building Zion. Everything in its right place. Salt Lake City, "a city of sprinklers." I think this has a lot more to do with sheer Mormon power/will and their particular imaginations about manicuring space. I have very little taste for any of that.
If it works out for the city, then great. I'm not moving back anytime soon, so.... whatevar I s'pose.
EDIT: it was the last line that I was exploring with One Brow and Franklin. I'm genuinely interested in the argument about how it is going to "work out," even though it has created an urban core that I'm very disinterested in.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I get the tax argument about the church. There's no denying that loop hole. I just don't get why people get so bunged hole over the church donating it's money to the city if founded, is dedicated to, and where their headquarters are currently based.
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I understand why. They live there are well and they may not necessarily like the direction the church wants to take the city in. how they go about expressing that is where the keep or lose my support.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily smarter, but I'm pretty sure they know what their best interests is and what's best for the church.
NAOS getting trolled as hard as it gets.
Yet global poverty declined in real terms for the first time in 2010. The decline in % has been ongoing and looks to have finally reached critical mass. Great things are happening in China, S. America, India, and even Africa.
And it's not the developed world sucking the production out of the poorest of the poor either. It's not like the hut dwellers have a whole lot to offer us. They lack the skills to add anything a machine can't already do. Those who gain from mutual trade have already acquire basic services which are necessary to add much value to the global economy. Then the trade helps them build upon those services.
On the environmental front, we've been adding to the US vehicle stock while decreasing fuel consumption since 2005. US steel production has been chopped in half. The developing world will follow suit after being built, and ours will fall further. We've gone from 70,000,000 to 120,000,000 households and added new gadgets but don't use a joule of extra energy. We've made great strides cleaning up our air and water. The EPA Superfund has shrunk as the worst sites have been reclaimed. Forests are managed from further decline and critical areas are being reconstructed. We grow more crops with less water and have reduced top soil erosion dramatically. True, the aquifers of the Mid-West are under pressure but we have an endless supply of salt water to purify and stock piles of cheap uranium to provide power thanks to non-proliferation treaties. How hard will political capital be to come by when farmers in the republican center have thirsty crops?
NAOS
Well-Known Member
do we need to dredge up the old fight over Main Street as a way to contextualize this issue?
The fight over who gets to determine the landscape of downtown has been raging for quite a while now. This is the voting district that elected the likes of Rocky Anderson. This is a crowd that has different interests than those of the Mormon church.
Tell me.... in a democratic society, how does the Mormon church keep getting its way in downtown SLC?
Not only are they utilizing a loophole in the tax code, but they are utilizing loopholes when it comes to State power (Mormon dominated) overcoding local power (which, again, isn't Mormon dominated).
The fight over Gateway is also pretty interesting context. We had just sunk millions into the trax project and the renovation of Main Street. Then, this stupid stucco thing gets approved 4 blocks away and crashes all the business on Main Street. I guess this was just the depression the Mormon church needed to sweep in and take control of a depressed area?
Oh, and go look at sugarhouse now. Then go look into this story.
SLC just sucks at Urban Development. Face it.
The fight over who gets to determine the landscape of downtown has been raging for quite a while now. This is the voting district that elected the likes of Rocky Anderson. This is a crowd that has different interests than those of the Mormon church.
Tell me.... in a democratic society, how does the Mormon church keep getting its way in downtown SLC?
Not only are they utilizing a loophole in the tax code, but they are utilizing loopholes when it comes to State power (Mormon dominated) overcoding local power (which, again, isn't Mormon dominated).
The fight over Gateway is also pretty interesting context. We had just sunk millions into the trax project and the renovation of Main Street. Then, this stupid stucco thing gets approved 4 blocks away and crashes all the business on Main Street. I guess this was just the depression the Mormon church needed to sweep in and take control of a depressed area?
Oh, and go look at sugarhouse now. Then go look into this story.
SLC just sucks at Urban Development. Face it.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
History is a bitch.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
You know I respect your opinions, but you are pushing the HOPE button pretty hard. I think some of the gloss you give to China, S. America, India, and Africa is very debatable. And, it's possible that these environmental corrections will be remembered as somebody sweeping while the floodwaters were on their way.
@NAOS one reason the political power in SLC is Mormon dominated is that Mormons historically vote at a higher rate than non Mormons. Take that fact in SLC the "heart" of Mormonism and you have you answer. SLC is (last I heard) roughyl 50% Mormon. You could make that 35% Mormon and the power structure would still be Mormon dominated.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
I haven't followed SLC politics for a while now, but I think your percentages and voting patterns are off.
There is no question that the State is heavily Mormon (as is any area outside of SLC proper). And, there is no question that State authority will be wielded when certain interests in the city need them to come to the rescue.
I'll give you this one. Sugarhouse used to be a great place to walk around and look at all the unique shops (retail shops by the way, albeit privately owned). Developer swoops in, tears down all the cool shops, economy goes belly up and now you have nothing but a big field.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Again, dickwad, I didn't come out against ALL RETAIL FOREVER AMEN, okay? And, since we are talking about sugarhouse, you should measure that against the likes of City Creek.... you'll see some important differences.