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Why we can contend now w/defense

D

D Will> CP3

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If bell starts and AK starts along with Al, Sap and D will we have a pretty good defensive team. Deron plays D when he wants to, Bell can pester the really good guards and provide hard fouls, AK can now fly all around and provide weak side help with now better defenders in Sap,AL and Bell. Al has the willingness to accept his D needs help and has the attitude like he wants to improve, Booz never said that. Even if he doesn't get better he blocks more shots than Booz, is taller,longer and bigger and will provide the effort. I don't know if any1 noticed but Sap blocked a quite a bit of shots for being a bench player, especially on the weak side.

Then on the bench, if they don't get Brown they still have Price who plays pretty good D, CJ is improving, hayward-not sure yet, Fes who can come in and block some and be physical and Memo who will provide size and effort. Overall, the D is vastly improved and if we can just score as close too as much last year, the Jazz will be in great shape.

If the Jazz could get a Shannon brown or Emeka Okafor(or any shot blocking big) it would only improve the D even more and could possibly put the Jazz over the top to beat the Lakers
 
I really hope your right that our defense will be a little improved, but there are a lot of ifs right now. Will Al commit to the defensive end or will he be boozer 2.0? Can Bell stay healthy after missing almost all of last season? All I know is that I'm as excited as Ive been in a long time for the season to start.
 
I'm not sure why everyone says..."if we can only get a shotblocking/defensive big it will put us over the top." It's not like you're adding that player to the court along with the rest. Put in a defensive big and you take away one of the offensive weapons (like Millsap or Jefferson). How many titles did Utah win with Mark Eaton? He was one of the best defensive bigs EVER. Ostertag was also no slouch. The problem was you didn't have to guard those guys on offense, so it was always 4 on 5.

Unless you have an elite defender (like a Wallace in his prime), you can't afford to give up too much on offense in exchange for what a player brings defensively, And the reverse is also true (e.g. T-MAC, AI, Boozer).
 
I'm as uptimistic as anyone for the coming season but to think we've upgraded big time on defense is silly.

Matthews and Bell is a wash to me. This isn't the Bell of five years ago. This is going to be the 2010-2011 version and Matthews was excellent last year and would have only likely been better this year. Pretty much a wash.
We'd hope Hayward would be better than Korver but heck, who knows, Korver was a vet and Hayseed's a rookie.
Before acquiring him, Jefferson was always roundly criticized for defense that was deemed worse than Boozer's. Now we think he's going to be better because he has better length?
Okur could be a shell of what he use to be once he returns.

Just saying, not a vast difference. If AJ shifted to the 4 and we had a legit presence (not Fes) at the 5, then yeah, maybe I could buy it. But not yet.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
I'm as uptimistic as anyone for the coming season but to think we've upgraded big time on defense is silly.
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Absolutely correct. Raja is not an upgrade over Wes and one of the knocks on Big Al has been his lack of D. Getting a few blocks does not make up for that. This team as presently constituted is once again a playoff team, not a contender. About the same as last year if GH is able to contribute right away but that is a big if right now. The only thing that makes us better this coming year will be how AK plays for the entire season.
 
I think the point some of you are missing is the change in attitude. We tend to look at the talent level and say its not that much better (although I think it is somewhat better).

The Jazz are a much tougher team this year.... by that I mean there is an attitude of getting better, not one of look how great I am. Some of it is addition by subtraction, and some is the new guys.

I am optimistic.
 
gomretat said:
Absolutely correct. Raja is not an upgrade over Wes and one of the knocks on Big Al has been his lack of D. Getting a few blocks does not make up for that. This team as presently constituted is once again a playoff team, not a contender. About the same as last year if GH is able to contribute right away but that is a big if right now. The only thing that makes us better this coming year will be how AK plays for the entire season.
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I think Raja is a slight upgrade - Raja might get the benefit of veteran calls from the refs - but given Wes was already one of our better defenders, I concede this change is not a difference-maker. But AJ is replacing Boozer, and I have to say that is a noticeable upgrade, if only because the bar was set so low.

I do agree AJ's blocks aren't too much to get excited about, but again here is a big upgrade over Boozer's efforts. AJ blocks shots at about the same rate as Memo did last year, and last year was a career year for swats for Memo. OTOH, Boozer blocks like a guard. Here's some /40min block rates from last season for comparison:

Millsap: 1.74
AK: 1.69
AJ: 1.59
Memo: 1.51 (his career BLK/40 is 1.00)
Price: 0.65
Boozer: 0.54
Korver: 0.50
 
glasseater said:
i'm not sure why everyone says..."if we can only get a shotblocking/defensive big it will put us over the top." it's not like you're adding that player to the court along with the rest. Put in a defensive big and you take away one of the offensive weapons (like millsap or jefferson). How many titles did utah win with mark eaton? He was one of the best defensive bigs ever. Ostertag was also no slouch. The problem was you didn't have to guard those guys on offense, so it was always 4 on 5.

Unless you have an elite defender (like a wallace in his prime), you can't afford to give up too much on offense in exchange for what a player brings defensively, and the reverse is also true (e.g. T-mac, ai, boozer).
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this. This. This.
 
Defense STARTS with attitude. All the size and physical skills in the world won't help if all 5 guys aren't mentally focused on WANTING to play defense. Boozer was no doubt the "weakest link".
Their defense to me was what made the old Detroit Pistons (both Bill Laimbeer's team and later Ben Wallace's team) such great teams. How willing Jefferson and CJ are to play consistant defense is a huge key to our success. No mental lapses!! We know DWill, Millsap, Raja, AK, Price, and I think Hayward will answer the bell. Evans could even become a contributor this year too. No doubt Evans and Hayward will make mistakes along the way, but developing that MINDSET is priority #1 when it comes to defense...
 
NotDeadYet said:
Defense STARTS with attitude. All the size and physical skills in the world won't help if all 5 guys aren't mentally focused on WANTING to play defense. Boozer was no doubt the "weakest link".
Their defense to me was what made the old Detroit Pistons (both Bill Laimbeer's team and later Ben Wallace's team) such great teams. How willing Jefferson and CJ are to play consistant defense is a huge key to our success. No mental lapses!! We know DWill, Millsap, Raja, AK, Price, and I think Hayward will answer the bell. Evans could even become a contributor this year too. No doubt Evans and Hayward will make mistakes along the way, but developing that MINDSET is priority #1 when it comes to defense...
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Yes!!!!! This where the Jazz will be better this year.

No Boozer jumping over his team-mates backs to add one more rebound to his stats, or watching someone go to the hoop for an uncontested slam so he wouldn't pick up a foul and have to go to the bench.

I see some team attitude coming that will make this team much better, even if you can't declare Bell to be much better than Matthews, or AJ and Hayward than Boozer and Korver.
 
NotDeadYet said:
Defense STARTS with attitude. All the size and physical skills in the world won't help if all 5 guys aren't mentally focused on WANTING to play defense. Boozer was no doubt the "weakest link".
Their defense to me was what made the old Detroit Pistons (both Bill Laimbeer's team and later Ben Wallace's team) such great teams. How willing Jefferson and CJ are to play consistant defense is a huge key to our success. No mental lapses!! We know DWill, Millsap, Raja, AK, Price, and I think Hayward will answer the bell. Evans could even become a contributor this year too. No doubt Evans and Hayward will make mistakes along the way, but developing that MINDSET is priority #1 when it comes to defense...
Click to expand...

Yes!!!!! This where the Jazz will be better this year.

No Boozer jumping over his team-mates backs to add one more rebound to his stats, or watching someone go to the hoop for an uncontested slam so he wouldn't pick up a foul and have to go to the bench.

I see some team attitude coming that will make this team much better, even if you can't declare Bell to be much better than Matthews, or AJ and Hayward than Boozer and Korver.
 
Points noted. However, I think many people are all really assuming Jefferson is going to have a better mindset than Booze when the evidence historically does not point in that direction. He's been as equally as bad a defender as Booze. Again, I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I'm simply stating what I see as facts.

That said, the kid is only 25 and is about to enter his prime, with an all-world point guard, on a very solid team, all things he's never experienced before. That should excite him. The question is, will it only translate on the offensive end? Let's hope not.
 
Another point; playing defense can become contagious. Raja, being a fiery guy and a vet, is more likely to inspire teammates than Matthews, who was a raw rookie scrambling just to make the team, eventually getting into the starting lineup. We tend to forget how young the Jazz still are overall. Hopefully Raja will be in Al and CJ's ear a lot this season...
The Lakers, OTOH, are a bunch of 30+ year-old grizzled vets.
 
NotDeadYet said:
Another point; playing defense can become contagious. Raja, being a fiery guy and a vet, is more likely to inspire teammates than Matthews, who was a raw rookie scrambling just to make the team, eventually getting into the starting lineup. We tend to forget how young the Jazz still are overall. Hopefully Raja will be in Al and CJ's ear a lot this season...
The Lakers, OTOH, are a bunch of 30+ year-old grizzled vets.
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I think it's also easier to give 100%, balls-out effort when you're on a winning team. I know, I know, these guys are professionals. But c'mon, if you've ever been on a Rec team you know your mindset is different if your team is good vs. knowing you'll probably lose by 20 pts no matter how effort you put forth. Jefferson has been on terrible teams, teams that never emphasized defense. Now he's going to have Sloan and Raja yelling at him. And we know there was conflict between Booz and AK. How much better might AK play? And we have 2 rookies who have already shown they're going to go in and fight for rebiounds and loose balls.

KEK's concerns are noted. But everything says to me the team is going to be much, much better defensively. And I don't see that much of a drop-off offensively. Korver averaged 2 three point attempts per game. Raja will do that. Boozer was just under 20 pts with 1o rebounds. Jefferson gets those stats. Matthews averaged 10 pts/per. That's easily replaceable.
 
GlassEater said:
I'm not sure why everyone says..."if we can only get a shotblocking/defensive big it will put us over the top." It's not like you're adding that player to the court along with the rest. Put in a defensive big and you take away one of the offensive weapons (like Millsap or Jefferson).
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THIS!! I wish more people understood that.
 
GlassEater said:
I'm not sure why everyone says..."if we can only get a shotblocking/defensive big it will put us over the top." It's not like you're adding that player to the court along with the rest. Put in a defensive big and you take away one of the offensive weapons (like Millsap or Jefferson). How many titles did Utah win with Mark Eaton? He was one of the best defensive bigs EVER. Ostertag was also no slouch. The problem was you didn't have to guard those guys on offense, so it was always 4 on 5.
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If the Jazz had Eaton instead of Ostertag in the Finals years, would that have been oh so bad?

So how many titles will the Jazz win with a 6-10 C and a 6-8 PF backed up by Slowmemo and maybe goofy Fes in the era of Kobe's 7-foot Lakers and Big Three fever?

It will be good, not bad, for the Jazz's chances of contending against the biggies if the Jazz get a shot-blocking big. Even front-office lovers know that KOC, post-Jefferson trade, still recognizes this.

Sure the Jazz as it is would be OK against many teams. Just like last season and before that. But this dismissiveness of the need for a shot-blocking big will evaporate when the Jazz look so small against the Lakers again.

KOC has had a good offseason so far but his job's still incomplete.
 
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