I'm more handsome.
How the Mormons Make Money
- Thread starter Archie Moses
- Start date
I'm more handsome.
Here it is. It was not that post alone. It's your persona. I live most of the year in Utah and know the LDS faith pretty dang well. 9 out of 10 of my LDS folks are way cool, down to earth, and overall just great people.
There have been atheists in this thread that I had respectful dialogue with (while some others took offense, I did not). I also had pleasant dialogue with members of various walks of faith. I'm very respectful when it come to religion.
I have no problem with someone telling me they disagree with the way I believe (that there is no god, i.e.). Now, there is one small sub-group that really gets on my nerves. Admittedly, it's a small percentage, but it's the Mormon that gets offended if you make a distinction between Mormonism and being "Christian" .. yet still reserves the right to call the LDS the "One True Church." So I get it, we're both Christian, I'm just a slightly lower life-form. By the way, I have ZERO problem with one believing that, it's your right, and that in of itself is not offensive .. it's just if you believe you're better than sack up and say it, stop mincing your words and just be transparent about what you believe.
This small group of Mormons that come off with the air of repulsive superiority, all the while holding their arms wide and saying, "come join me, we're all just Christians, together", with fingers crossed behind their backs, are exhausting.
We all have a button (see the old 'Pet Peeves' thread) and this is one of mine. And you seem to be one of 'those.' Maybe I'm wrong about you, but you asked my problem, so there it is..
NAOS
Well-Known Member
For the record, I'm not an atheist. (If you were talking about me).
Do you think it is possible to be too respectful?
I do. If your being respectful means cowing to a set of standards that you find oppressive, then I think it is fine to let them be seen as a mockery. I wouldn't expect that you would find religion to be a topic in which to be "dis"respectful, since it is, by and large, a Judeo-Christian standard of respect, but are there other topics/issues? Curious.
Do you think it is possible to be too respectful?
I do. If your being respectful means cowing to a set of standards that you find oppressive, then I think it is fine to let them be seen as a mockery. I wouldn't expect that you would find religion to be a topic in which to be "dis"respectful, since it is, by and large, a Judeo-Christian standard of respect, but are there other topics/issues? Curious.
Good question. I perceive religious tolerance to be a strength rather than a weakness. Respect of another's belief system is evidence of one's own confidence in his/her beliefs, at least it is in my own experience. Therefore my definition of being respectful toward others is out of strength and thereby cannot be 'too' respectful.
I believe what you have asked is whether I feel it's ever okay to disagree with (even vehemently, if need be) other's actions and/or beliefs. I do, definitely, but I feel too many pull the trigger too soon. We all err in this regard, I certainly do, but as a principle characteristic of simply being a good person, one should show patience, kindness, and the other good fruits as much as they possibly can .. being slow to anger.
Probably said too many words to answer your question..
^^^ Oops, lost my train of thought. Yes, of course I believe there are other topics ..
physical handicaps
mental handicaps (not of the Trout variety, for example, those are fair game)
Race
Many, many others .. Generally, I think about anything is in bounds when said either in jest or with respect .. most everything is out of bounds if you are truly just trying to be an *** .. and nothing more.
physical handicaps
mental handicaps (not of the Trout variety, for example, those are fair game)
Race
Many, many others .. Generally, I think about anything is in bounds when said either in jest or with respect .. most everything is out of bounds if you are truly just trying to be an *** .. and nothing more.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
I was about to type that it's more of a discernment thing, but then proceed to cite the areas you requested. So I actually took my time to re-read this thread (embarrassing, but I admit it).
Afterwards, I realized the following;
- I had formed an opinion of you (whether right or wrong) that you were one of 'those' Mormon that I outlined above.
- When you said that Mormons gave up cigs long before they were deemed unhealthy, that, for whatever reason, ticked me off as being a Mormon elitist.
- After re-reading, I admit I jumped the gun.
- Everything from there was just your response to me having jumped the gun.
Regardless of 'who' you are and what you stand for, I agree that this one was on me .. no matter why I went off, I did.
My apologies.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Sweet. Like I said, I have no finesse or tact or whatever you want to call it. But I'm not elitist (at least not in this context).
The thing with smoking was to illustrate the idea of obedience sometimes without knowing why. Not that the LDS Church knew something no one else did. Along those lines much of the Word of Wisdom I still don't understand (like coffee). But I don't do it out of obedience.
:hifive:
green
Well-Known Member
I love it when people bang on the Mormon church for saving their money, being thrifty, and then obtaining wealth. Instead of sitting around whining about it, why don't we all look at what they have done and try to emulate it?
Oh, that would require sacrifice, work, and patience.
Oh, that would require sacrifice, work, and patience.
I have a sneaky suspicion that NAOS' response would be much more in depth and pithy than what you and I have agreed upon.
So you two will get a room and NAOS will be left outside, in the cold, reading a "Do Not Disturb" sign, I presume?
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
I stand by the robbing comment. Paying 10% of your income or going to Hell is the equivalent of a highway robber.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Definitely a big pill to swallow. :softball:
How about 10% to Gordon?
I'm going to go the other way, not paying tithing is robbing.
It's a commandment with a promise attached. What some of the other people have said about not knowing how, but things just working out when they paid their tithing willingly is true. The math does not make sense, but I have always had what I needed, when I needed it... not necessarily what I wanted. The Lord is asking us to prove this law out by paying tithing, and watching to see how he blesses you. I can vouch for the windows of heaven being poured out. It is not a pot of gold poured out, but it is help in many different ways and aspects of life.
C'mon, you can't say nobody saw this coming in regards to the robbed comment... and I'm surprised I didn't see something similar sooner.
This disagreement about tithing has more to do with God, the Nature of God, and belief in scripture than it does about tithing specifically.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
If America was trying to build malls and create a dependency on its secretive government filled with old white men behind closed doors (and it might be), asking for 10% of the wealth that I will accrue over my life while in return offering a place in Heaven and for blessings that may or may not be real--but we certainly have no way of telling (what a racket, that is), and Heaven which paradoxically is a place you can only get to after you die (and for some reason no one wants to do that, for some reason) and the money is then useless, anyway, but God lives in Heaven and one has to wonder what he is using the money for, but to build malls that sell stuff that would be useless when we get in to heaven--and we do want to get in--all the things the church invests in seems sort of trivial, unless their goal was just to be a tax exempt business, unless it's like a Fast Food Heaven or something, like if that's our idea of Heaven, like if Heaven is just America the nice neighborhood while Hell is the bad neighborhood, but just for eternity, and maybe Heaven has a currency and the 10% tithing the church asks for is actually just an investment, or like you're putting that money in an trust fund and the more you pay/less porn you watch the bigger the house you get in Heaven, but, anyways.
I guess I get your point. You're saying that the government can tax and that's the same as the Mormon church asking for a tax. That they're the same thing: taxes I pay to the government and taxes I pay to Prophet Monson. But, Ideally (and I don't want to get into politics) the government represents its people, and does societies work. Ideally. The government at this point in time though, is not offering me salvation or threatening damnation. And I can see a stop sign. When we pay for stop signs we can see them.
I don't see any blessings. Well, I guess I see shopping malls.
Tithing payers should consider themselves partners in the building of the Mall and demand a cut. And not feel bad about needing help to keep their lights on.
If I give my 10% to the Mormon Mall Fund (MMF, please send the donations you can, because every state should have a mall and a temple), and can't pay my electric bill, but I go to the church and they agree to help me pay my light bill, while also making sure I know that they're helping me out and I agree that they are helping me out, and probably making me feel bad about it...
That's called a dependency.
This post kind of got away from me but I had fun writing it.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
This is not me sacrificing so the less can have more, though. This would be me sacrificing so the more could have more.
I agree the jist of what you're saying though, very wise. Though, building a mall seems counter-intuitive to that message.