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Well...so much for trading AK.

KrazeeEyezKilla said:
Again, if we re-sign AK to anything even remotely close to Odom money, we're ****ing retarded. You can say he'll get paid that because of a weak FA class next year (which it's not--Carmello, Ming, Perkins, Horford, etc.) but look at what somewhat similar players like Artest and Ariza got. Not 9 per. If we choose to even go 7M per, we're ****ing retarded. The eunuch has no heart, misses 20+ games a year, can't shoot, can't be depended on because of all of the above, and his signing will kill us in trying to get a legit defensive 5 (i.e., Perkins) while Williams is entering and in the prime of his career, or even worse, hinder our ability to re-sign Williams or Jefferson when that time comes.
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The injuries are the biggest factor the Jazz have to weigh in an offer. Hard to say how that affects the price. The players you mention do help to set the bottom price, although Ariza was an MLE player paid for potential, not actual production. Artest is a freak of nature who arguably took less to play for the Lakers, but whose attitude wasn't going to net him a big deal. AK is more productive than both those guys, anyway. Every team in the league would be interested in him at MLE money. So the going rate is higher. How high is hard to say. But good luck finding guys who can put up his all around numbers at a discount price. They just aren't out there.
 
billyshelby said:
The injuries are the biggest factor the Jazz have to weigh in an offer. Hard to say how that affects the price. The players you mention do help to set the bottom price, although Ariza was an MLE player paid for potential, not actual production. Artest is a freak of nature who arguably took less to play for the Lakers, but whose attitude wasn't going to net him a big deal. AK is more productive than both those guys, anyway. Every team in the league would be interested in him at MLE money. So the going rate is higher. How high is hard to say. But good luck finding guys who can put up his all around numbers at a discount price. They just aren't out there.
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Re-signing him would prohibit us from ever being able to get a legit defensive 5 like we so badly need imo. Barring a Millsap for Gortat swap or something like that.
 
InGameStrategy said:
I don't see Utah having cap space to sign anyone more than the MLE next year. They already have two max deals in DW and AJ. Based on info right now, I agree that 7 or 8 million is a good price tag for Kiri. If he does well, I hope that he considers staying.

Yet another example of a player who has been content playing in Utah--even though he's had his own drama and injury history.
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And this is why we need to dump Memo for nothing. **** what he's done for us. Nostalgia hinders your ability to move forward. Get him out off here, let AK expire and we'll be 27M better off to go after a legit center AND then re-up AK at around 3 years, 21M. Even after all that, we'd be monetarily in a better situation and have an infinitely better team.
 
Might as well ride it out and see if we can sign him to a reasonable contract next summer.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Gasol and Noah are restricted. Chance at Gasol. None on Noah.

I like Perkins, but I doubt he leaves Boston, unless the Jazz want to overpay him.
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Boston's already committed to about 75.5M next year for just eight players. Throwing even just 6-7M at Perkins is going to be very, very tough. Considering how tough it is to find a truly legit defensive center, I would seriously put thought into offering him four years, 35M like I said.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
Boston's already committed to about 75.5M next year for just eight players. Throwing even just 6-7M at Perkins is going to be very, very tough. Considering how tough it is to find a truly legit defensive center, I would seriously put thought into offering him four years, 35M like I said.
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Which is why they get overpaid. Look at Hayward, Gadzuric, Dampier. The list goes on. And they don't end up helping a team win. While I think Perkins is better than those guys, I don't see Boston passing him up, or a team like Dallas or Miami swooping in with a sign and trade offer.

Clearing cap by dumping contracts guarantees nothing. Going into a summer banking on one unrestricted free agent and two restricted ones is a recipe for getting nothing. New Jersey knows all about that.
 
I honestly think Jefferson might turn out to be our solution at center. Yeah, the homer glasses are on nice and tight, and I've never really watched the guy play D, but he's not much different physically than Perkins. Ben Wallace was the best defensive center in the game for a decade and he's 6-9. I get that length is always an issue, but he's got the big body to push guys around down there. The question is whether he has the ability to help. All in all, though, how many teams have a frontcourt like Jeff/Sap/Memo/AK/Fes? Which, of course, is another reason I like keeping AK. His versatility to be able to slide into the frontcourt is impossible to find.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
Boston's already committed to about 75.5M next year for just eight players. Throwing even just 6-7M at Perkins is going to be very, very tough. Considering how tough it is to find a truly legit defensive center, I would seriously put thought into offering him four years, 35M like I said.
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I don't believe the Jazz can even offer that though. They won't be under the salary cap without AK so the only player getting the money over MLE is AK.

Jefferson 14M
Deron 16.6M
Okur 10.8M
Millsap 6.7M
Hayward 2.5M

All under contract for that season. 50.6 M is already pushing the cap. That's for 5 players.

The Jazz also have the option on CJ for 3.7. Which I think they pick up or resign him.

So 54.3 M for 6 players. That does not leave any room to add a player at more than MLE.

All of this of course changes if the current contract changes dramatically.

I don't think they are going to be able/willing to trade Okur without taking back a similar contract.
 
ShaggyReAL said:
NOT THIS. What has Gortat ever done, Other than being tall?
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I wasn't suggesting we do it and am on the fence about Gortat myself, probably leaning away from him given his contract which if he failed would be an albatross. I was simply stating that that's the type of move I could see.
 
gregbroncs said:
I don't believe the Jazz can even offer that though. They won't be under the salary cap without AK so the only player getting the money over MLE is AK.

Jefferson 14M
Deron 16.6M
Okur 10.8M
Millsap 6.7M
Hayward 2.5M

All under contract for that season. 50.6 M is already pushing the cap. That's for 5 players.

The Jazz also have the option on CJ for 3.7. Which I think they pick up or resign him.

So 54.3 M for 6 players. That does not leave any room to add a player at more than MLE.

All of this of course changes if the current contract changes dramatically.

I don't think they are going to be able/willing to trade Okur without taking back a similar contract.
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Correct. But my thoughts which you were replying to were me piggy-backing off of one of my previous posts in which I said we need to dump Memo pronto.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
I wasn't suggesting we do it and am on the fence about Gortat myself, probably leaning away from him given his contract which if he failed would be an albatross. I was simply stating that that's the type of move I could see.
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Thanks for clarifying that. I'm not opposed to Gortat just not at Milsaps expense.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
Correct. But my thoughts which you were replying to were me piggy-backing off of one of my previous posts in which I said we need to dump Memo pronto.
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Yea I got that. I just really don't think they will be able or willing to do so. If Memo comes back at his pre injury level I still think he's worth that contract to the Jazz. If he doesn't then nobody else is going to want him.
 
AK is MAYBE worth more than the mid-level, ONLY if he can play atleast 72 games this year and be a solid contributor in the playoffs. (Even then it is debatable) Otherwise, it would be foolish to spend 8-9 mil year on a guy who has screwed this franchise for the last 5 years, essentially denying them a chance at contention all by himself. If the Jazz FO can redeem themselves then they will have to somehow make AK agree for the mid-level. If not, let them ask him to take a hike, especially if a team like Porty starts playing games with us again and gets into a bidding war. A 30+ guy who missed 15 games every year and ewas never a big factor in the playoffs for the past 5 years should'nt be getting anything more than the mid-level. I could care less if he can fill up the boxscores for about 2 months every season.When we needed the help the most in the playoffs he has never been a big X-factor for us, injuries or otherwise.
And small forward, thankfully, is not that tough a position to fill in the NBA, like maybe a center. And if Hayward shows a lot of promise and hopefully develops fast, why would we need a 30+guy with perennial back spasms and assorted injury history?

It will be interesting to wait and see though, if those back spasms magically disappear in a contract year.
 
vj_74 said:
AK is MAYBE worth more than the mid-level, ONLY if he can play atleast 72 games this year and be a solid contributor in the playoffs. (Even then it is debatable) Otherwise, it would be foolish to spend 8-9 mil year on a guy who has screwed this franchise for the last 5 years, essentially denying them a chance at contention all by himself. If the Jazz FO can redeem themselves then they will have to somehow make AK agree for the mid-level. If not, let them ask him to take a hike, especially if a team like Porty starts playing games with us again and gets into a bidding war. A 30+ guy who missed 15 games every year and ewas never a big factor in the playoffs for the past 5 years should'nt be getting anything more than the mid-level. I could care less if he can fill up the boxscores for about 2 months every season.When we needed the help the most in the playoffs he has never been a big X-factor for us, injuries or otherwise.
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Whatever, vj. I would love to rescue you from the depths of your cipher-reputation (Rep Power = 0), but not on the basis of your extreme rant here.

It's a free country. Larry and company willingly overpaid Kirilenko, and AK accepted, just like any rational player would. If the Jazz had waited a year, he'd be already on a cheaper deal. Besides his "whinergate" incident in the playoffs, where it can be argued that both he and Sloan could've communicated better, AK's been among the least of our worries for contributing. A $17 million contributor? No way. But an MLE contributor? Tampoco.

Many of the top small forwards not named LBJ or Crymelo (Tayshaun Prince, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace) are on contracts averaging $9 million to $11 million now. Artest is on an MLE deal, but it can be argued that (1) his past attitude warranted a discount, and (2) the opportunity to have an excellent shot at a championship came in exchange for a discount, too. So to say that AK is barely worth the MLE, even with injuries, is quite far-fetched.

Some argue that he still plays out of position. I'm not so sure, but he's improved a bit in terms of seeming to be a better outside shooter.
https://www.thoughtsfromthejockstra...2009/top-10-nba-small-forwards-2009-2010.html

Just watch how this season is better--not only becuase it's a contract year but also because Boozer isn't in the paint pushing his own teammates out of the way for rebounds and not enabling AK and others help him play defense. AK and Millsap play well together, and they are of similar value according to the following data. In other words, around $8 million per--give or take a million.
https://basketballvalue.com/teampla...summary&sortnumber=92&sortorder=DESC&team=UTA

The recent injury risk is a problem. But I still think that it is incidental. He plays haphazardly, but hopefuly the trainers do what they can to minimize the risk.
https://www.nba.com/jazz/news/042010_kirilenko_update.html

As for Elder Hayward being able to replace what AK does, I'm not holding my breath. Hayward's upside--a few years from now--is to be a rich man's Korver, not a poor man's Kirilenko. If AK stays in the NBA, I predict that he re-signs with the Jazz at the end of the season for a high seven-figure deal.

Play in Brooklyn? I don't see it happening.
 
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