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What's JazzFanz's stance on Marriage Equality?

Catchall said:
The civil rights movement for minorities and women was about gaining the right to vote. "Expanding rights" may encompass states recognizing same-sex marriage, but it's not a given. How many states recognize same-sex marriage right now? I don't even know. Are there one or two?
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Because blacks couldn't vote when MLK Jr. was giving his speeches in the 60s. 1960s, not 1860s.
 
Catchall said:
The civil rights movement for minorities and women was about gaining the right to vote. "Expanding rights" may encompass states recognizing same-sex marriage, but it's not a given. How many states recognize same-sex marriage right now? I don't even know. Are there one or two?
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So inter-racial marriages, workplace equality, protection from sexual harassment, slavery, reproductive rights, and a million other civil rights issues never existed? The acceptance of gay marriage is inevitable because the only opposition comes from the religious side. Since religious sentiment is malleable and logic much less so, the religious will accept the trend of equal rights for gays slowly but unquestionably.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
What makes it better? You could have two gay dads and one could be very emotionally understanding/warm (mother-like) and that would replace the "ideal" mother. Your mom isn't a good mom because of what is between her legs.

The only thing that clearly makes it a worse situation is the possibility ( and probability) of emotional teasing/being made fun of. That is never a good reason not to do something though.
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Women and men are different period. Kids would be better off (generally) with one of both. My opinion and if you don't like it then tough ****
 
Stoked said:
And you are entitled to your opinion. See how that works. Also that was a really stupid way to make your point. What we are talking about isn't fact
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An opinion based on fact is a lot more respected than an opinion based on nothing, which is what your opinion is at the moment. "I just think..." you say. We ask, "Why?" You say, "Because I just think..." Makes your argument as intelligent sounding at the 2+2=5 opinion.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
An opinion based on fact is a lot more respected than an opinion based on nothing, which is what your opinion is at the moment. "I just think..." you say. We ask, "Why?" You say, "Because I just think..." Makes your argument as intelligent sounding at the 2+2=5 opinion.
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The opinion that there is no difference is not based on anything more than mine. Think on that.
 
Xsy said:
What are you trying to say here? This is your argument?
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I don't know your mother or if she raised you, but if she did, she would probably feel that she made a number of efforts that were worthwhile and that made use of her motherly instincts. People loosely make this argument that a same-sex couples can raise children just fine. I think it's a reach. Try asking children or yourself if you would have preferred same-sex parents. Since this has been brought up, I'll just go ahead and say it: is that habit or predisposition of yours really conducive to creating an environment for raising children? Is the issue of marriage equality really just about your rights as an individual? Or does your responsibility as a parent go beyond just you as an individual and affect future generations? Maybe you don't want to adopt or raise children and you just want to live that lifestyle. That's fine, but why should the legal definition of marriage, which affects society as a whole, be altered to accommodate your desires? Your argument seems to be--"Well, heterosexual couples can also have bad marriages, adulterous affairs, and questionable parenting habits too, so why can't we do what we want to do and be legally married?" It's like your argument hinges on the institution of traditional marriage failing so as to accommodate what you want to do.

Again, it's just my opinion and I respect your right to voice yours, but to me this issue isn't even close.
 
One Brow said:
Actually, they said two gay parents were better than no parents.

If there a surplus of people wanting to adopt, or a suplus of children waiting to be adopted? IIRC, once you go above the age of 2, there are more of the latter. Do they go parentless rather than go to same-sex couples?
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If there is a huge shortage of married couples wanting to adopt then that's one thing. As far as I know, there isn't...

I just don't think it would be fair for a kid to grow up in a gay-couple environment when he/she hasn't chosen to do so. What happens at a parents' night at school? Wouldn't all the kids at school tease him?

The question is, is it fair to put that sort of pressure on a kid?
 
Catchall said:
I don't know your mother or if she raised you, but if she did, she would probably feel that she made a number of efforts that were worthwhile and that made use of her motherly instincts. People loosely make this argument that a same-sex couples can raise children just fine. I think it's a reach. Try asking children or yourself if you would have preferred same-sex parents. Since this has been brought up, I'll just go ahead and say it: is that habit or predisposition of yours really conducive to creating an environment for raising children? Is the issue of marriage equality really just about your rights as an individual? Or does your responsibility as a parent go beyond just you as an individual and affect future generations? Maybe you don't want to adopt or raise children and you just want to live that lifestyle. That's fine, but why should the legal definition of marriage, which affects society as a whole, be altered to accommodate your desires? Your argument seems to be--"Well, heterosexual couples can also have bad marriages, adulterous affairs, and questionable parenting habits too, so why can't we do what we want to do and be legally married?" It's like your argument hinges on the institution of traditional marriage failing so as to accommodate what you want to do.

Again, it's just my opinion and I respect your right to voice yours, but to me this issue isn't even close.
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Shouldn't the question be, would you rather be raised by loving parents or unloving parents?

And this "lifestyle" you keep bringing up, what is this lifestyle in your mind? You seem to have this thought that being homosexual means you live life entirely different than that of a heterosexual with regards to anything outside of sexual orientation. It's like you think homosexual couples can't live in a quiet suburb or something.
 
Catchall said:
I don't know your mother or if she raised you, but if she did, she would probably feel that she made a number of efforts that were worthwhile and that made use of her motherly instincts. People loosely make this argument that a same-sex couples can raise children just fine. I think it's a reach. Try asking children or yourself if you would have preferred same-sex parents. Since this has been brought up, I'll just go ahead and say it: is that habit or predisposition of yours really conducive to creating an environment for raising children? Is the issue of marriage equality really just about your rights as an individual? Or does your responsibility as a parent go beyond just you as an individual and affect future generations? Maybe you don't want to adopt or raise children and you just want to live that lifestyle. That's fine, but why should the legal definition of marriage, which affects society as a whole, be altered to accommodate your desires? Your argument seems to be--"Well, heterosexual couples can also have bad marriages, adulterous affairs, and questionable parenting habits too, so why can't we do what we want to do and be legally married?" It's like your argument hinges on the institution of traditional marriage failing so as to accommodate what you want to do.

Again, it's just my opinion and I respect your right to voice yours, but to me this issue isn't even close.
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Did you even read my first few posts in this topic? You came in pretty late. I've already said my bits on why separate but equal is awful, why civil unions aren't the same as marriage, and real life instances on how same sex marriage can greatly improve people's lives while doing nothing to affect yours.

Do you want me to reiterate these posts for you?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
If there is a huge shortage of married couples wanting to adopt then that's one thing. As far as I know, there isn't...

I just don't think it would be fair for a kid to grow up in a gay-couple environment when he/she hasn't chosen to do so. What happens at a parents' night at school? Wouldn't all the kids at school tease him?

The question is, is it fair to put that sort of pressure on a kid?
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The link I just put up has the research suggesting that kids raised by homosexual couples are not teased any more or less than kids raised by heterosexual couples.

And when have children EVER had the choice on where to grow up?

"I don't think it would be fair for a kid to grow up in a _____ environment." (Black, Jewish, Chinese, American, White, inner-city, interracial, dumb, smart, anything)
 
Hotttnickkk said:
If there is a huge shortage of married couples wanting to adopt then that's one thing. As far as I know, there isn't...

I just don't think it would be fair for a kid to grow up in a gay-couple environment when he/she hasn't chosen to do so. What happens at a parents' night at school? Wouldn't all the kids at school tease him?

The question is, is it fair to put that sort of pressure on a kid?
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Kids don't deserve the choice as to were they grow up, they are kids. They are were they are. If they have good parents who provide for them and love them, then they are lucky in the grand scheme of the world.

And like I said earlier, if a reason for not doing something is solely "I will get made fun of" then that is a pretty lame reason. Gay people tend to pretty tough, so I think they could instill that toughness into their kids
 
Hotttnickkk said:
If there is a huge shortage of married couples wanting to adopt then that's one thing. As far as I know, there isn't...

I just don't think it would be fair for a kid to grow up in a gay-couple environment when he/she hasn't chosen to do so. What happens at a parents' night at school? Wouldn't all the kids at school tease him?

The question is, is it fair to put that sort of pressure on a kid?
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Some kids are going to be fat because of their fat parents. What if he's picked on a lot in elementary school!

Ban fat marriage.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
The link I just put up has the research suggesting that kids raised by homosexual couples are not teased any more or less than kids raised by heterosexual couples.

And when have children EVER had the choice on where to grow up?

"I don't think it would be fair for a kid to grow up in a _____ environment." (Black, Jewish, Chinese, American, White, inner-city, interracial, dumb, smart, anything)
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That study was only based on lesbians.

I think there's a bit of a difference between lesbians and gays. A woman has a much better sense in bringing up a baby than a man IMO. They seem to have more patience, more caring, etc.

So unless you can bring me a study of kids being raised by gays, I'd hold off on giving you that argument.

But I do respect you for backing part of your argument with that study.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
That study was only based on lesbians.

I think there's a bit of a difference between lesbians and gays. A woman has a much better sense in bringing up a baby than a man IMO. They seem to have more patience, more caring, etc.

So unless you can bring me a study of kids being raised by gays, I'd hold off on giving you that argument.

But I do respect you for backing part of your argument with that study.
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Maybe that is because men can usually lean on a woman for that. In the case that a man is forced to raise a child, they would act differently. People adapt to roles.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
That study was only based on lesbians.

I think there's a bit of a difference between lesbians and gays. A woman has a much better sense in bringing up a baby than a man IMO. They seem to have more patience, more caring, etc.

So unless you can bring me a study of kids being raised by gays, I'd hold off on giving you that argument.

But I do respect you for backing part of your argument with that study.
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10 more seconds of searching.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100831091240.htm

EDIT: And before you might make the claim that it doesn't differentiate between lesbian and gay, well, if there's no difference when looking at just lesbians, and no difference when combining the two, what conclusion can you reach with just gay?
 
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