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What's JazzFanz's stance on Marriage Equality?

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2011.300382

According to studies, in places (Massachusetts) where homosexual marriage is legal, the physical and mental health of homosexuals is better. Found the link from here: https://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/09/news/la-heb-gay-marriage-health-studies-20120509

So it would do the public GOOD by legalizing gay marriage because its citizens are in better health.

That study shows an effective 8% - 10% decline in medical expenditure, comparing one year to the next. That's not conclusive or statistically significant, given other factors and natural fluctuations. I'd want to see a substantial reduction in mortality and susceptibility to serious conditions. That might take a bit more time to establish. Also, a reduction in health care expenditure amongst people engaged in same-sex marriage, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to change policy for everyone else.

What was Massachusetts' policy before?
 
I read an abstract of that study and a large part of results were improvements on 'mental health care'. Improvement on 'physical health' was minimal (mean of 5 vs 4.67).

Catchall is claiming that homosexual marriage is detrimental to the current state of homosexual affairs. A "statistically significant decrease in medical care visits" (also from the abstract) states otherwise.
 
That study shows an effective 8% - 10% decline in medical expenditure, comparing one year to the next. That's not conclusive or statistically significant, given other factors and natural fluctuations. I'd want to see a substantial reduction in mortality and susceptibility to serious conditions. That might take a bit more time to establish. Also, a reduction in health care expenditure amongst people engaged in same-sex marriage, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to change policy for everyone else.

What was Massachusetts' policy before?

Study says statistically significant, meaning statisticians recognize a pattern that goes beyond the variables. And you want to see "substantial" reduction when your claim to disallowing homosexual marriage is that it'd be unhealthier if it was, when the evidence suggests otherwise? This must mean your opinion that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because it's more harm than good rings hollow or is a flat out lie.
 
Uhhh...you just undid your whole argument in one post.

No. Just because the word has meaning to the spiritual and religious world doesn't mean it should be exclusive to it. Marriage to gays can be just as spiritual and religious as heterosexual marriage, and shouldn't be limited to one subset. In contrast, marriage doesn't have to have the spiritual and religious meaning to heterosexual couples, just as the same can be for homosexual marriage. Thus marriage shouldn't be limited to the spiritual and religious crowd.
 
From what I've been reading, promiscuity raises one's chances at contracting HIV and other STDs. I doubt Catchall is keen on banning ALL promiscuous relations, knowing that would never be passed nor enforceable, and lowering promiscuous rates seems to be in the public health's interest, and homosexual marriage seems to lower the, I guess, "promiscuous rate," than I'd think he would be FOR homosexual marriage if that was his main reasoning for banning the practice was health implications.
 
No. Just because the word has meaning to the spiritual and religious world doesn't mean it should be exclusive to it. Marriage to gays can be just as spiritual and religious as heterosexual marriage, and shouldn't be limited to one subset. In contrast, marriage doesn't have to have the spiritual and religious meaning to heterosexual couples, just as the same can be for homosexual marriage. Thus marriage shouldn't be limited to the spiritual and religious crowd.

But you basically said homosexuals should't be deprived of the spiritual symbolic meaning they put on marriage but it is fine to deprive heterosexuals of that meaning.
 
But you basically said homosexuals should't be deprived of the spiritual symbolic meaning they put on marriage but it is fine to deprive heterosexuals of that meaning.

Ah, that's what you're getting at. Religious and spiritual people don't have to recognize it. The state is neither and thus cannot deny rights based on religious belief. In any case, a meaning that deprives is going to lose to the meaning that includes.
 
Catchall is claiming that homosexual marriage is detrimental to the current state of homosexual affairs. A "statistically significant decrease in medical care visits" (also from the abstract) states otherwise.

Hi again, I'm claiming that states should be reluctant to sanction homosexual marriage so as not to promote homosexuality and its potential physical/mental health risks to the public at large. Same reason certain drugs and other immoral behaviors are illegal, whether they are commonplace or not. I'm willing to take people's religious convictions off the table and look at it on the basis of morality, public health and well being. Put simply: should the state encourage that behavior and give it the rights and recognition of marriage? That's how I look at it, and I come out against it. But that's just me, and you know that already.
 
Oh, man, did I miss the conversation where the anti-marriage equality people tried to make the "Buttsex gives you cancer so gay marriage should stay illegal" argument?

That's one of the funniest arguments I've ever heard. I can't believe it was even brought up.
 
Late comer comment: Marriage is usually the part when you surrender your love to the society. Without the legal bounds, relationships would be more honest. Rarely, it's a good thing cause you hold the hand of your real life-long comrade. It differs through the historical-social timeline and having polygamous marriages even in 2012 means it has nothing to do with any kind of value universal.

About gay marriage: Gay men? Let'em marry if they want, man! This kinda relationship is older than the concept of state itself. Lesbians? **** yeah! And send me a couple for neighbourship.


You know when you give voice to your oppinions and knowledge, they sound lame? Yeah. That last bit was exactly it.
 
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I'm claiming that states should be reluctant to sanction homosexual marriage so as not to promote homosexuality

First of all, "Promoting Homosexuality"? Ffs, dude. First of all, no one here or in the government PROMOTES people to change their sexual orientation. My parents PROMOTED the heterosexual lifestyle to me, and guess what? Turns out I'm not into chicks. **** me, right? I really wanted to be straight, but it didn't happen. Trust me, I tried. From puberty until I was 19 years old. I fasted, prayed, and guess what? I'm still gay. I was even planning on going on a mission. I was raised in the PERFECT LDS household. Happy home life, loving family of 6, church every Sunday, seminary every day in high school. So please, don't bring up the argument that I may have had a "liberal" upbringing or an abusive parent.

The term you're looking for is "Supporting Homosexuality". "SUPPORT". It simply means we DON'T have equal rights, and we want the government to SUPPORT the rights of two adult consenting men who love each other. Nothing more. No promoting. No one is trying to turn you and your family gay, here.

You just have the worst word selection pretty much ever

and its potential physical/mental health risks to the public at large. Same reason certain drugs and other immoral behaviors are illegal, whether they are commonplace or not.

Holy crap, dude, buttsex cancer isn't this giant epidemic that's killing the nation-- and HIV is more than treatable now. And I've just got to know-- what does ANY potential disease have ANYTHING to do with a LOVE COMMITMENT?

Let's flip this logic back and use it against heterosexuals, shall we?

"Unwanted pregnancy is much, much, much, much, much more common than HIV. Unwanted children lead to abortions, which I'm guessing in your book, is a bigger sin than contracting HIV. Therefore we should ban Heterosexual marriage-- to protect marriage from abortions and orphaned children."

Sounds stupid, right? Well you're making the same argument. Get a better one, because this one is ****.

Fast food kills more people than HIV and Buttsex cancer-- ban fast food?
Cars kill more people than HIV and Buttsex Cancer-- ban cars?

No.

You're going to die. Some people die from cigarettes, some in car accidents, and others from having too much gay buttsex. And that's why America is so great.

But again I ask you, WHAT DOES MARRIAGE HAVE TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS? Gay sex happens with marriage or not. Legalizing gay marriage will not 'create' new homosexuals-- it will simply accommodate those already existing on the planet. This doesn't affect your life in any way. At all. Your kids won't turn gay because they see gay people. They're gay if they're gay. There's nothing you can do about it.

Put simply: should the state encourage that behavior and give it the rights and recognition of marriage? That's how I look at it, and I come out against it. But that's just me, and you know that already.

And that's why you're a ****ing retard. I'm sorry, I tried to be respectful for this topic, and I probably deserve an infraction for that, but holy cow.

I've made a huge mistake by making this topic-- it saddens me to see such ignorant posts like this.

Basketball topics from now on for me.

Like, holy crap-- how would allowing gay marriage, a commitment between two people, SPREAD HIV? If anything, it would literally reduce the number of people being infected by HIV.

I seriously just cannot fathom this logic you're busting out.
 
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First of all, "Promoting Homosexuality"? Ffs, dude. First of all, no one here or in the government PROMOTES people to change their sexual orientation. My parents PROMOTED the heterosexual lifestyle to me, and guess what? Turns out I'm not into chicks. **** me, right? I really wanted to be straight, but it didn't happen. Trust me, I tried. From puberty until I was 19 years old. I fasted, prayed, and guess what? I'm still gay. I was even planning on going on a mission. I was raised in the PERFECT LDS household. Happy home life, loving family of 6, church every Sunday, seminary every day in high school. So please, don't bring up the argument that I may have had a "liberal" upbringing or an abusive parent.

The term you're looking for is "Supporting Homosexuality". "SUPPORT". It simply means we DON'T have equal rights, and we want the government to SUPPORT the rights of two adult consenting men who love each other. Nothing more. No promoting. No one is trying to turn you and your family gay, here.

You just have the worst word selection pretty much ever



Holy crap, dude, buttsex cancer isn't this giant epidemic that's killing the nation-- and HIV is more than treatable now. And I've just got to know-- what does ANY potential disease have ANYTHING to do with a LOVE COMMITMENT?

Let's flip this logic back and use it against heterosexuals, shall we?

"Unwanted pregnancy is much, much, much, much, much more common than HIV. Unwanted children lead to abortions, which I'm guessing in your book, is a bigger sin than contracting HIV. Therefore we should ban Heterosexual marriage-- to protect marriage from abortions and orphaned children."

Sounds stupid, right? Well you're making the same argument. Get a better one, because this one is ****.

Fast food kills more people than HIV and Buttsex cancer-- ban fast food?
Cars kill more people than HIV and Buttsex Cancer-- ban cars?

No.

You're going to die. Some people die from cigarettes, some in car accidents, and others from having too much gay buttsex. And that's why America is so great.

But again I ask you, WHAT DOES MARRIAGE HAVE TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS? Gay sex happens with marriage or not. Legalizing gay marriage will not 'create' new homosexuals-- it will simply accommodate those already existing on the planet. This doesn't affect your life in any way. At all. Your kids won't turn gay because they see gay people. They're gay if they're gay. There's nothing you can do about it.



And that's why you're a ****ing retard. I'm sorry, I tried to be respectful for this topic, and I probably deserve an infraction for that, but holy cow.

I've made a huge mistake by making this topic-- it saddens me to see such ignorant posts like this.

Basketball topics from now on for me.

Interesting...you think whether or not one's actions affect other people is what deems them illegal? Interesting. Very interesting, indeed.
 
...So you're saying that polygamy, polyandry....brother in-law marriages are immoral practices that have since been stamped out of marriage law. Okay. Great.

If I were to say that, I would be wrong, because some of those practices still exist. You have a remarkable filter.

I just don't think most states will do it.

Over what time frame? IN another 30-40 years, most states will have legalized homosexual marriage.
 
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