The Debates

[SaltyDawg]

It's a reaction to a ridiculous assertion about Romney's character. Take away the initial hype and Romney wouldn't have to do all this angling.





Obama was a state senator in Illinois. Did he put up any bills limiting state pension funds from investing in these places that are being demonized? He may not have had control over where they were being invested but he did have full opportunity to put his money where his mouth is by introducing an ethical investing bill.

Is it even legal to tell a private company (pensions are run by private companies, just like 401ks and IRAs) that they can't invest in otherwise legal mutual funds?

Like that would fly...

 

[Stoked]

It's a reaction to a ridiculous assertion about Romney's character. Take away the initial hype and Romney wouldn't have to do all this angling.





Obama was a state senator in Illinois. Did he put up any bills limiting state pension funds from investing in these places that are being demonized? He may not have had control over where they were being invested but he did have full opportunity to put his money where his mouth is by introducing an ethical investing bill.

No he did not. He was to busy voting "present" on any bill up for vote.

 

[franklin]

Is it even legal to tell a private company (pensions are run by private companies, just like 401ks and IRAs) that they can't invest in otherwise legal mutual funds?

Like that would fly...

ublic pensions are private? Okey doke.
Public servants can't vote on where public pension funds are invested? Okey doke.
Public pensions are unregulated? Okey doke.

 

[SaltyDawg]

ublic pensions are private? Okey doke.
Public servants can't vote on where public pension funds are invested? Okey doke.
Public pensions are unregulated? Okey doke.

Public pensions are administered by private companies, yes. And no, the participants (or general public) do not get to say how the money is invested.

 

[nightmare3983]

No he did not. He was to busy voting "present" on any bill up for vote.

Whoa whoa whoa Stoked. He was busy voting "present" because he needed to focus on how to become president and change the United States. He was thinking big.

 

[Stoked]

Whoa whoa whoa Stoked. He was busy voting "present" because he needed to focus on how to become president and change the United States. He was thinking big.

Lol, in all fairness those votes where at the state level. They were also a very small % of his total votes. Under 5% I believe.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Public pensions are administered by private companies, yes. And no, the participants (or general public) do not get to say how the money is invested.

A main difference between 401k/IRA investments is the payout. It is paid out through time while the other can be taken all at one time. Trust me, someone is deciding on what the pension is invested in and that person will definitely listen to or take orders from Leaders in a State Government. Pensions just like other investments are given with instructions to the person carrying out that plan by the person/organization giving the money. It's not a invest in whatever you want to deal. Keep dreaming they are sooooo different.

 

[franklin]

Public pensions are administered by private companies, yes.

Some of the funds are allocated to private investment vehicles. Some are not. Pension assets are highly regulated already. Claiming congress has no say in how the funds are invested demonstrates how little you know of the matter.

And no, the participants (or general public) do not get to say how the money is invested.

Nice try grasping at straws trying to deflect the original question. It's been stated multiple times specifically as public servants and not the general public (who could hold a referendum on the matter so you're wrong on that front as well).

 

[Brown Notes]

If you are looking for the moderator to keep them factual then the debates would last 10 hours and nothing would be accomplished.

To me that is an excuses that doesn't cut it. If it did devolve to a YES I did! No You Didn't! thing then she interupts and gets them back on target but she does not refute them on any facts or policy.

If you disagree then that is fine. To me she messed up and any attempt to justify it is pure ********.

They weren't talking about something fuzzy like projected budgets or how to fix the economy etc. They will call each other liars all day long on those points and will both be right most of the time. In those cases the Mods should and usually do only butt in when time is an issue or both guys are repeating themselves.

This was a specific event, and not disputable. It only made the Moderator look left because Romney ended up with egg on his face. It's not even really his fault, his people should have caught that. Romney himself doesn't have time to research every word that comes out of the POTUS's mouth.

 

[SaltyDawg]

A main difference between 401k/IRA investments is the payout. It is paid out through time while the other can be taken all at one time. Trust me, someone is deciding on what the pension is invested in and that person will definitely listen to or take orders from Leaders in a State Government. Pensions just like other investments are given with instructions to the person carrying out that plan by the person/organization giving the money. It's not a invest in whatever you want to deal. Keep dreaming they are sooooo different.

They absolutely ARE "sooooo different" in that aspect. If you have a pension, you have no say in how that pension invests the money. If you have an IRA, you pick the funds that you invest in.

Someone can obviously tell the plan administrator "don't invest in this particular fund or I'll select a different plan administrator after our current contract ends." But Joe Schmoe participant in the plan, aka Barack Obama, can't do that.

 

[Stoked]

They weren't talking about something fuzzy like projected budgets or how to fix the economy etc. They will call each other liars all day long on those points and will both be right most of the time. In those cases the Mods should and usually do only butt in when time is an issue or both guys are repeating themselves.

This was a specific event, and not disputable. It only made the Moderator look left because Romney ended up with egg on his face. It's not even really his fault, his people should have caught that. Romney himself doesn't have time to research every word that comes out of the POTUS's mouth.

As appropriate. However that is not what she did here. She directly refuted him on something political. I'm not mad about it but I think she over stepped her bounds as moderator.

He was not violent, beligerent or even missuing his time.

 

[Scat]

I agree this "money in China" is a non issue. But I do want to point out that they are not equal.

Most pensions are not like IRAs or 401ks where you can pick funds and invest how you want. Most pensions (every job I have ever worked that had one was this way) are totally managed by someone else. You have no control whatsoever how the money is invested.

Most (all) 401ks and IRAs allow you to have total control. You pick the funds and investments. And most of them (all of them) have options for funds that only invest in U.S. companies. Often you will see them listed as US Small Cap, or US Large Cap, or something like that.

Having said that, I don't think it's a big deal if either of these guys have a mutual fund that invests in some Chinese company.

What IS a big deal is if you run for president based on your business experience, refuse to release a fair amount of your tax returns, have Swiss bank accounts and money stashed in the Cayman Islands, are known to be a "pioneer of outsourcing," and then attack someone else because their public pension happened to have a mutual fund that invested in China.

You are hereby officially kicked out of the S³ think tank. Until further notice it will consist of myself and my alt, Stoked. We will be known as S², Inc. moving forward. So say we all.

 

[Stoked]

You are hereby officially kicked out of the S³ think tank. Until further notice it will consist of myself and my alt, Stoked. We will be known as S², Inc. moving forward. So say we all.

Seconded!

 

[SaltyDawg]

Some of the funds are allocated to private investment vehicles. Some are not. Pension assets are highly regulated already. Claiming congress has no say in how the funds are invested demonstrates how little you know of the matter.



Nice try grasping at straws trying to deflect the original question. It's been stated multiple times specifically as public servants and not the general public (who could hold a referendum on the matter so you're wrong on that front as well).

Pension assets are regulated, yes. They are not, however, restricted by law from investing in legal mutual funds. And we both know such a law would never fly. The notion is so ridiculous that I'm not even sure you're being serious.

And public servants have no say in the investments made by their pension. It's that better?

Pensions are run by private companies. As an organization, you can select the private administrator of the plan, and maybe even get them to agree to some investments as a condition of selecting that company. But as an individual, you have absolutely no say in how pension funds are invested.

 

[SaltyDawg]

You are hereby officially kicked out of the S³ think tank. Until further notice it will consist of myself and my alt, Stoked. We will be known as S², Inc. moving forward. So say we all.

Seconded!

I don't get it? I think I missed whatever you're talking about here...

 

[Jazz Spazz]

You are hereby officially kicked out of the S³ think tank. Until further notice it will consist of myself and my alt, Stoked. We will be known as S², Inc. moving forward. So say we all.

Seconded!

I don't get it? I think I missed whatever you're talking about here...

I hereby put in my request to add Spazz to complete the S Trifecta again. What say ye One and all... and one.

 

[Stoked]

I hereby put in my request to add Spazz to complete the S Trifecta again. What say ye One and all... and one.

I approve this motion. What say ye Scat?

Salt it was thrown around jokingly that you, Scat and I are the sme person and all alts of each other.

 

[franklin]

Pension assets are regulated, yes. They are not, however, restricted by law from investing in legal mutual funds. And we both know such a law would never fly. The notion is so ridiculous that I'm not even sure you're being serious.

And public servants have no say in the investments made by their pension. It's that better?

Are you claiming there are no socially responsible investing regulations on state books already? "Please proceed, governor."

 

[Scat]

I don't get it?

Clearly.

 

[Scat]

I hereby put in my request to add Spazz to complete the S Trifecta again. What say ye One and all... and one.

As you are my second most awesome alt this makes sense. Done. S³ is officially S³ again! Of course Scat comes first. You two can argue about who's listed second.