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Game #7 - Utah Jazz vs Phoenix Suns - 11/10/12 - 7:00 PM MST, Root Sports - 1280AM/97.5 FM

billyshelby said:
Marvin Williams had a nice drive towards the end of the game. I hope he never does it again. And we need to stop posting him immediately because he can't do it. He's got no handle, he can't post, and he should concentrate on his spot up shooting.
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Sorry, but I think you're wrong here. One of the best things Marvin does well is post up smaller SF's, even though he usually passes back out of that particular post up.
At the same time, he hardly ever turns the ball over on those possessions, and helps give the opposing defense a different look to handle.
Al, and Marvin are probably the two best post players in the starting line up.
 
JJAS said:
I was about to punch the screen of my computer with Tinsley in. His pace was absurdly slow, and he never pushed the ball at all. He can't score or defend. The fact that Al had a good game, was about the only reason Tinsley had as many assists as he did. Toward the end of the game, Phoenix had figured out that they don't need to guard Tinsley, so we were playing 4 on 5. I'm all for 18, 7 vs 0, 14.
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You're missing everything. The half court offense ran much better with Tinsley. Don't confuse speed with efficiency. Mo plays fast...badly. Tinsley plays slow...effectively.

My only gripe was the second half. In the first half, we played through the low block and created our opportunities that way. In the second, we reverted to our crap offense where we tried to let Hayward/Marvin/Foye do too much.
 
JJAS said:
Also, there are very few good true PGs in the league anymore.
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Makes no sense. All the Jazz need to find is a young Andre Miller (or a young Tinsley...or, if they're super lucky, a young Gary Payton), but there just don't seem to be many (any?) out there.
 
JJAS said:
The fact that Al had a good game, was about the only reason Tinsley had as many assists as he did.
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You must be joking here.....
I would attribute Al's great game with how Tinsley was finding him, Millsap, Hayward, Favors, and Kanter.
Now I'm sure Al will continue to have games like this this year, but it was this game that got Al his confidence back. Jamaal had a lot to do with this.
 
The league as a whole has moved away from the "true" point guard. Most of the PG out there are shoot first type players. Just look at the assist #'s. Right now 6 assists a night is a good mark for a lot of the Point guards out side of Rondo. I remember when Stock was playing there always 3-4 guys avg over 10 APG.
 
billyshelby said:
You're missing everything. The half court offense ran much better with Tinsley. Don't confuse speed with efficiency. Mo plays fast...badly. Tinsley plays slow...effectively.

My only gripe was the second half. In the first half, we played through the low block and created our opportunities that way. In the second, we reverted to our crap offense where we tried to let Hayward/Marvin/Foye do too much.
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This.
 
TheSilencer1313 said:
Sorry, but I think you're wrong here. One of the best things Marvin does well is post up smaller SF's, even though he usually passes back out of that particular post up.
At the same time, he hardly ever turns the ball over on those possessions, and helps give the opposing defense a different look to handle.
Al, and Marvin are probably the two best post players in the starting line up.
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Marvin is a terrible, terrible post player. His ONE move is the fadeaway. And that's probably the worst shot in basketball. He has never once posted and gone TOWARD the basket. If you can't go toward the basket on a post, you should NEVER post.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Would, say, Jose Calderon be an improvement overall? IIRC, you're not a fan, but I'm curious of your thoughts.
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ew. No. Watch him play. Terrible on the break. Pounds the ball until late in the shot clock. Sieve defensively. Yuck.
 
billyshelby said:
As Tinsley proved tonight, 'starting caliber' is less the goal than any PG with the mindset of being a Pg. Although Mo won't ever have Tinsley's vision, he could still play like a PG trying to set the team up and picking his spots. What killed me tonight was watching Tinsley consistently find bigs down low or shooters on drive and kicks. Mo so rarely does that.
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We're going to disagree on this. Mo doesn't have that ability. Watching him run pick and rolls is painful, even when he tries to pass. As soon as he puts the ball on the floor, he's decided what he's going to do with it. He doesn't see the floor well enough or think the game fast enough to be able to make quick reads and make precise passes to exploit seams in the defense. That's not something he's going to figure out at this point in his career.
 
billyshelby said:
Marvin is a terrible, terrible post player. His ONE move is the fadeaway. And that's probably the worst shot in basketball. He has never once posted and gone TOWARD the basket. If you can't go toward the basket on a post, you should NEVER post.
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He's not an offensive post player, and that's why both the Jazz and the Hawks have used him in the post. He's an excellent passer out of the post, and has a very high court vision out of the post position, and that's always been the case.
Like I said.... it makes opposing defenses wonder what the hell is going on with a play like that.
 
candrew said:
It's on him - no doubt. But it also can't help your confidence when you have a great pre-season and the coach decides to reward you by giving you 2 minutes in the first 3 games.
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As Jerry Sloan used to say all the time. "the player needs to be ready to play at all times when and if your number is called, and Burks isn't keeping himself prepared from the looks of things. Right now his biggest strength is getting in the lane and getting to the foul line, but if you can't make your foul shots what's the damn point. Right now there are better options then Burks. It's not Ty's fault Burks has confidence issues or whatever it is. If anything he is having a bad attitude about his time on the court and it's affecting his play.
 
GVC said:
We're going to disagree on this. Mo doesn't have that ability. Watching him run pick and rolls is painful, even when he tries to pass. As soon as he puts the ball on the floor, he's decided what he's going to do with it. He doesn't see the floor well enough or think the game fast enough to be able to make quick reads and make precise passes to exploit seams in the defense. That's not something he's going to figure out at this point in his career.
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We do agree on this. Completely. I'm not sure what I said that disagrees with this, but you just said exactly what I think.
 
TheSilencer1313 said:
He's not an offensive post player, and that's why both the Jazz and the Hawks have used him in the post. He's an excellent passer out of the post, and has a very high court vision out of the post position, and that's always been the case.
Like I said.... it makes opposing defenses wonder what the hell is going on with a play like that.
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He is NOT a good passer at all, in any situation. He's not good in the post, he's not a good ballhandler, and he's not a very good player. Maybe that will change, but that's what the first 6 games say.
 
billyshelby said:
He is NOT a good passer at all, in any situation. He's not good in the post, he's not a good ballhandler, and he's not a very good player. Maybe that will change, but that's what the first 6 games say.
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Well now it all makes sense. So you're judging Marvin's NBA passing career by his first 6 games with the Jazz?
For one thing, Corbin doesn't know how to use Marvin yet and he's still creating opportunities for himself and his teammates.
Marvin has always been known for his passing out of the post, and scouters have been saying that for years.
 
billyshelby said:
[Mo] could still play like a PG trying to set the team up and picking his spots. What killed me tonight was watching Tinsley consistently find bigs down low or shooters on drive and kicks. Mo so rarely does that.
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Mo isn't a floor general, he doesn't have a good sense of spacing or pace. Dude's probably been the Jazz's most consistently competitive player this season, but no amount of trying is going to change the way he sees/plays the game of basketball.

Maybe I misread that part of your post.
 
billyshelby said:
He is NOT a good passer at all, in any situation. He's not good in the post, he's not a good ballhandler, and he's not a very good player. Maybe that will change, but that's what the first 6 games say.
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Dude reminds me strongly of Bryon Russel. Best wing defender on the team, fairly solid shot, professional attitude, doesn't expect a lot of plays run for him.
 
JJAS said:
I was about to punch the screen of my computer with Tinsley in. His pace was absurdly slow, and he never pushed the ball at all. He can't score or defend. The fact that Al had a good game, was about the only reason Tinsley had as many assists as he did. Toward the end of the game, Phoenix had figured out that they don't need to guard Tinsley, so we were playing 4 on 5. I'm all for 18, 7 vs 0, 14.
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Come on now, we wouldn't have seen Favors' behind the back dribble and layup if Tinsley hadn't thrown a quick outlet pass.
 
Brown Notes said:
Dude reminds me strongly of Bryon Russel. Best wing defender on the team, fairly solid shot, professional attitude, doesn't expect a lot of plays run for him.
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Perfect comparison. The Jazz FO knew what they were doing when they traded Harris for Marvin, and he's exactly the team player/defender that a young team needs moving ahead in the playoffs.
 
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