GVC
Well-Known Member
Uh...Seems more stupid than cheap. What would you do if he signed an offer sheet for $10mm/year, given similar per minute production next season (with a bump in minutes)?
Gordo: Jazz Leading Per Minute Scorer. Extension?
- Thread starter GVC
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Gyp Rosetti
Banned
GVC
Well-Known Member
How likely do you think it is that Gordon regresses? How likely do you think it is Gordo signs an offer sheet worth less than $8mm per season if he doesn't regress? Less than $9mm per season?
GVC
Well-Known Member
That's built into the question. Up to last night, Gordo is the Jazz's leading per minute scorer, second most efficient scorer among regulars (by TS%), best wing defender and leader of one of the league's best second units.
You think it's unlikely he regresses. You think it's unlikely he gets offered less than your max figure in free agency. You'd match a contract $2mm over your max extension salary. Do you just like throwing money away?
GVC
Well-Known Member
So if given the opportunity to pay $9 today or $10 tomorrow for something you'd be willing to pay $10 for, you'd wait until tomorrow?
orangello
Well-Known Member
If it came down to it I wouldn't want to lose Hayward. I am not going to be like Memphis and overpay to keep someone on the team though. Try a small amount first and if he doesn't bite then be willing to match what the market brings to a certain extent. My breaking point is anything more than 12 million a year.
If Gordon continues to trend like he has this year, he is going to be worth a 4 year contract at $10 mil. +. He's shooting 40% from three (taking more than he ever has), he gets to the line extremely well, and he is a fabulous defender.
Over the last 10 games he's scoring at a clip of 22.3 pts/36 and actually scoring 15.4 on relatively limited minutes.
His assists should come up, and he showed last night that he can rebound the ball when he puts forth effort. His BBIQ is superb.
Legitimately he could be a player that produces 20, 4.5, 5, 1.2, 1 (45%, 40%, 85%) with great D, high free-throw %, and great size for the 2. That's why we need to give him minutes this year, so we can see what he can really do. I really hope the Hayward that we've seen lately is who he is.
Also, don't underestimate how giving/offering a player less money than he is probably worth and doing the test-the-market bull crap can rub a player the wrong way.
Over the last 10 games he's scoring at a clip of 22.3 pts/36 and actually scoring 15.4 on relatively limited minutes.
His assists should come up, and he showed last night that he can rebound the ball when he puts forth effort. His BBIQ is superb.
Legitimately he could be a player that produces 20, 4.5, 5, 1.2, 1 (45%, 40%, 85%) with great D, high free-throw %, and great size for the 2. That's why we need to give him minutes this year, so we can see what he can really do. I really hope the Hayward that we've seen lately is who he is.
Also, don't underestimate how giving/offering a player less money than he is probably worth and doing the test-the-market bull crap can rub a player the wrong way.
orangello
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of truth to that statement.
orangello
Well-Known Member
I agree.
To those that are voting for salaries in excess of $10 million: I'm having a hard time fathoming that. I see Hayward at this point as a slightly better than average SG/SF.* Therefore I think he will get a contract that pays a bit more than the midlevel exception. With the new CBA, the midlevel starts at $5 million. And tax-paying teams are limited to $3 million! https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one Therefore I have a hard time visualizing Hayward getting an offer much more than $7-8 million/year, and so I voted for choice A.
* This could change by the end of the season, but that's where I think he is right now. If it changes, then I'll change my vote.
* This could change by the end of the season, but that's where I think he is right now. If it changes, then I'll change my vote.
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
This is a long read, but it tells a lot of good info on what the Jazz have coming up in the future salary wise:
[FONT=&]
The Jazz have some incredible decisions to make in the up coming years. They have 4 players coming up on extensions and they have 9 players who are free agents.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The year to focus on is 2014-15 when the Jazz will have had to decide what to do with all of the young players. The Jazz should not have any tax issues in 2013-14.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Word around the league is the tax will increase 2 to 3 million a year over the next period of time. In my projections we will be conservative and out it at 2 million a year.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The first thing that has be figured out is how much can you pay the 4 youngsters and then this will allow you know what you can pay the players to surround them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Durant and Westbrook were max players earning between 15 and 18 million dollars a year. None of the Jazz players look to be max players at this point. Yet, in this off-season from July 1 to October 31st the Jazz will have a chance to sign Derrick Favors and Gordon Hayward to extensions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Recent contracts can give us some idea of what players are going to get paid. Let’s start with Derrick Favors. Roy Hibbert got the max in the off-season at $14 million when he went on the open market and Pacers were forced to match it.Kevin Love also received the max at 14 to 16 million a year. Brook Lopez received a deal from 13 to 16 million. Serge Ibaka got 12 million from the Thunder for 4 years. Atlanta’s Al Horford is earning 12 million a year and Marc Gasol is nearing 15 million, both those contracts were signed before the collective bargaining agreement.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Favors is not at the level of any of those players at this point, but he may be by the end of the season. Moreover. the Jazz need to give him a deal that is good enough that he decides not to go to the open market where someone is likely to spend big time money. Let’s put Favors down near 12 million.
Next on the list is Gordon Hayward. His best comps may be Danilo Gallinari at 10 million a year, Nicholas Batum who is near 11 million a year and keep a close eye on what DeMar DeRozan gets this off-season or as an extension. Let’s put Hayward down near 11 million.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If the Jazz could do this it is a significant difference to have those two players at 23 million rather than the Durant/Westbook combo of 33 million.
Kanter will be the next one on the list. He will need to be signed in the off-season of 2014 from July 1 to October 31st. Kanter is a big and all bigs seem to be earning around 12 million a year as I showed you with Favors.
That places the Jazz at 35 million for three players. This again is far better than the Thunder who were at 45 with three players.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Moreover,all of three of these would not be on the books until 2015-16 giving the Jazz adecent amount of flexibility in the next two years.
If the Jazz can get these three done between 35, they would have 35 million topay the remaining 11 players on the roster before going over the tax. Of course, if it takes 40 million the Jazz get into Thunder territory very quickly trying to finish the roster with 11 players and 30 million.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I have not forgotten Alec Burks I just believe he may fall into the next tier of decisions. If Burks emerges he is probably somewhere between 7 million and 10 million a year. This is the same place Paul Millsap, Marvin Williams and Mo Williams fall into. Al Jefferson is earning 14 million and some people believe he can get that on the open market this off-season.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]When all these salaries kick in is the key here. For 2013-14 the Jazz could re-sign Millsap, Mo and Marvin all around 9 million a year without any problem. Then the Jazz could have each of those players salaries decrease by 7.5% as their belts get tighter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]For 2013-14 the Jazz have room to sign a free agent but any long term deal pushes the Jazz toward the tax in the upcoming years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]In 2014-15 with Hayward and Favors under new deals the Jazz start to walk toward tax issues. If the Jazz re-sign the 3 M’s, Millsap, Mo and Marvin. Coupled with two years of first round picks and the Warriors pick the Jazz would be at 63million for 11 players.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The Jazz should be able to sign a free agent to a 2 year contract with some cap space in the off-season and more than one if they renounce the rights to some of their major free agents.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]All of this is being done with the assumption Al Jefferson is too expensive.However, the Jazz could re-sign Al instead of Millsap and one of either Mo,Marvin or a market free agent and still use the mid-level to get a 4 million dollar a year player with going over the tax.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Things begin to get very tight in 2015-16.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]When you add a 12 million dollar a year extension to Kanter and a 8 million a year to Burks the Jazz start running up some huge numbers. If the Jazz extend all 4 and they will be near 44 million in salary for 4 players, then if the Jazz have also re-signed Millsap, Marvin and Mo to three year deals and they have 4 first round picks they are at 72 million for 11 players. The Jazz add two minimum players and they should be able to stay under the tax.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]This is actually encouraging. However, if they want to sign Al they would be deep into the tax in 2015-16 if they also sign Mo and Marvin. If Favors is a max extension with Millsap, Mo and Marvin signed the Jazz are at 79 million and over the tax.[/FONT]
This is why it baffles me a bit why they are not playing Favors and Hayward more. Do you want to gamble with these guys since there are many question marks as to how good they are? Teams with mediocre players constituting the largest portion of their salary space do not win a lot of games. Why not give them as great a chance to show what they can do unless you're trying to limit their development so you can get them at a cheaper price. They need to quit pussyfooting around and either go with the vets or youth and that includes trades for whichever one they don't choose. We'll see what they do by February.