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A Brief History of #3 Overall Picks and Playing Time

Hartsock said:
I doubt those other 3's had the teams 2 other best players playing the same position though ... but something has to happen Favors looked great last night and Kanter well he is young still
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ehat best players?
jeffersuck is far form the best player on the jazz.
he is probably the worst
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
The bigs will survive. I don't think either of them are emotionally fragile and both understand the unique situation they are in.
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These two are just fine knowing they'll both make at least $50,000,000.00 more in their career thanks to Ty extending their careers. They don't need to waste their knees when they're young and raw, and everyone understands this.
 
franklin said:
These two are just fine knowing they'll both make at least $50,000,000.00 more in their career thanks to Ty extending their careers. They don't need to waste their knees when they're young and raw, and everyone understands this.
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and why play defense then.
not playing defense extends their careers also :).
aslong as you bring it on offense. you'll get boozer and jeffersuck like contracts.

why hustle and extend energy, it shortens your carreer
 
If I was Kanter or Favors and I knew I could get good money, more minutes and play in a bigger market, go to a better contending team I'd bolt in a heart beat. I'd be mad sitting on the bench when I see the starters get owned night after night
 
Crawlnstall said:
If I was Kanter or Favors and I knew I could get good money, more minutes and play in a bigger market, go to a better contending team I'd bolt in a heart beat. I'd be mad sitting on the bench when I see the starters get owned night after night
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Sure, and you`d obvisouly risk it all by taking the QO to become a free agent?
 
The Jazz are handling this Favors/Kanter situation the same way they handled Deron and the same way they handled Stockton. End of story. Favors will get 30-35 mpg next year. Book it.
 
IBProfane said:
Here is a short list of #3 overall picks since the 2000 NBA Draft. Listed is the year the player was drafted and then minutes per game during their rookie, sophmore, and third year in the NBA. For as much as we complained about Deron Williams at the time, he played more during his rookie season than Favors has played at any point while on the Jazz during 3 seasons. Enes Kanter has the lowest court time of ANY player drafted during the last 13 years by nearly 7 MPG, only trailing...you guessed it, Derrick Favors.

2012 - Bradley Beal (31.0 MPG)
2011 - Enes Kanter (13.2, 14.7 MPG)
2010 - Derrick Favors (20.2, 21.3, 21.8 MPG)
2009 - James Harden (22.9, 26.7, 31.4 MPG)
2008 - O.J. Mayo (38.0, 38.0, 26.3 MPG)
2007 - Al Horford (31.4, 33.5, 35.1 MPG)
2006 - Adam Morrison (29.8, Injured, 15.2 MPG)
2005 - Deron Williams (28.8, 36.9, 37.3 MPG)
2004 - Ben Gordon (24.4, 31.0, 33.0 MPG)
2003 - Carmelo Anthony (36.5, 34.8, 36.8 MPG)
2002 - Mike Dunleavy (15.9, 31.1, 32.5 MPG)
2001 - Pau Gasol (36.7, 36.0, 31.5 MPG)
2000 - Darius Miles (26.3, 27.2, 30.0 MPG)

I feel terrible for Favors and Kanter, they haven't even had a fair shake. Seeing how badly our front office has dropped the ball is really something to behold when you see statistics like these. I wouldn't blame either of them for wanting to bolting when their rookie deals are up. It's a sad state of affairs folks.
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horrible correlation as none of them were playing behind fringe all-stars.
even though hayward was the 9th pick, guys should be complaining most about his PT.

WARP
 
franklin said:
This is what really pisses me off about Ty: most #3 picks are drafted onto bottom of the league teams, hence getting higher playing time than they would deserve on a winning club.
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Okay, well here are the records of those bottom-of-the-league teams:

2009 - James Harden (22.9, 26.7, 31.4 MPG) 50-32 (.610), 55-27 (.671), 47-19 (.712)
2008 - O.J. Mayo (38.0, 38.0, 26.3 MPG) 24-58 (.293), 40-42 (.488), 46-36 (.561)
2007 - Al Horford (31.4, 33.5, 35.1 MPG) 37-45 (.451), 47-35 (.573), 53-29 (.646)
2006 - Adam Morrison (29.8, Injured, 15.2 MPG) 33-49 (.402), N/A, 35-47 (.427)
2005 - Deron Williams (28.8, 36.9, 37.3 MPG) 41-41 (.500), 51-31 (.622), 54-28 (.659)
2004 - Ben Gordon (24.4, 31.0, 33.0 MPG) 47-35 (.573), 41-41 (.500), 49-33 (.598)
2003 - Carmelo Anthony (36.5, 34.8, 36.8 MPG) 43-39 (.524), 49-33 (.598), 44-38 (.537)
2002 - Mike Dunleavy (15.9, 31.1, 32.5 MPG) 38-44 (.463), 37-45 (.451), 34-48 (.415)
2001 - Pau Gasol (36.7, 36.0, 31.5 MPG) 23-59 (.280), 28-54 (.341), 50-32 (.610)
2000 - Darius Miles (26.3, 27.2, 30.0 MPG) 31-51 (.378), 39-43 (.476), 27-55 (.329)

Though some of those teams suck, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the comment. If you look at the third year of these teams (Favors' current position) 6 of these 10 teams had better winning percentages than we currently have, with one not far behind. In the second year (Kanter's current position), 5 of the 9 teams had better winning percentages than we currently have. Sure, we're playoff contenders. The argument isn't that they aren't getting 35 mpg. The argument is that, with everything that's been said, these guys are ranking dead last in minutes.

Now that we can more clearly assess that these teams are in a much closer proximity to our current team, feel free to shift the goal-post on the argument.

Weezur said:
The Jazz are handling this Favors/Kanter situation the same way they handled Deron and the same way they handled Stockton. End of story. Favors will get 30-35 mpg next year. Book it.
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1. Just because McLeod and Palacio started over Deron doesn't mean that it was the best course of action.
2. Deron played 28.8 mpg his rookie year. His second and third years were 36.9 and 37.3 mpg, respectively.
3. From top-to-bottom, there is nothing similar about this franchise between now and 1984 except that Scott Layden somehow still has a job (in a much smaller capacity) and Thurl Bailey still maintains some kind of loose-affiliation with the team. Perhaps you could point out some other relevant details between 1984 and now.
 
infection said:
Okay, well here are the records of those bottom-of-the-league teams:

2009 - James Harden (22.9, 26.7, 31.4 MPG) 50-32 (.610), 55-27 (.671), 47-19 (.712)
2008 - O.J. Mayo (38.0, 38.0, 26.3 MPG) 24-58 (.293), 40-42 (.488), 46-36 (.561)
2007 - Al Horford (31.4, 33.5, 35.1 MPG) 37-45 (.451), 47-35 (.573), 53-29 (.646)
2006 - Adam Morrison (29.8, Injured, 15.2 MPG) 33-49 (.402), N/A, 35-47 (.427)
2005 - Deron Williams (28.8, 36.9, 37.3 MPG) 41-41 (.500), 51-31 (.622), 54-28 (.659)
2004 - Ben Gordon (24.4, 31.0, 33.0 MPG) 47-35 (.573), 41-41 (.500), 49-33 (.598)
2003 - Carmelo Anthony (36.5, 34.8, 36.8 MPG) 43-39 (.524), 49-33 (.598), 44-38 (.537)
2002 - Mike Dunleavy (15.9, 31.1, 32.5 MPG) 38-44 (.463), 37-45 (.451), 34-48 (.415)
2001 - Pau Gasol (36.7, 36.0, 31.5 MPG) 23-59 (.280), 28-54 (.341), 50-32 (.610)
2000 - Darius Miles (26.3, 27.2, 30.0 MPG) 31-51 (.378), 39-43 (.476), 27-55 (.329)

Though some of those teams suck, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the comment. If you look at the third year of these teams (Favors' current position) 6 of these 10 teams had better winning percentages than we currently have, with one not far behind. In the second year (Kanter's current position), 5 of the 9 teams had better winning percentages than we currently have. Sure, we're playoff contenders. The argument isn't that they aren't getting 35 mpg. The argument is that, with everything that's been said, these guys are ranking dead last in minutes.

Now that we can more clearly assess that these teams are in a much closer proximity to our current team, feel free to shift the goal-post on the argument.



1. Just because McLeod and Palacio started over Deron doesn't mean that it was the best course of action.
2. Deron played 28.8 mpg his rookie year. His second and third years were 36.9 and 37.3 mpg, respectively.
3. From top-to-bottom, there is nothing similar about this franchise between now and 1984 except that Scott Layden somehow still has a job (in a much smaller capacity) and Thurl Bailey still maintains some kind of loose-affiliation with the team. Perhaps you could point out some other relevant details between 1984 and now.
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Damn! infection dropping knowledge to fools talking out thier asses.
Repped and one of the best posts i have seen in quite awhile.
 
they don't play them cause they want to be able to keep them after their rookie contracts for less money. if they would get more playing time, i think both would get max money offers. but still, people are ready to play big money to big men if they have potential and didn't get many minutes on the floor in the past (see deandre jordan, mcgee, omer asik and so on).

the jazz want to keep them for 8-9 mio/year instead of 15 mio/year. that's the only explanation to me. let them on the bench as long as possible so that they don't become great in order to be able to match any contract offer favors and kanter get.

i think millsap and jefferson should leave this or by the end of the season. favors and kanter have to start as soon as possible. neither shortysap or fatboy al are ready to come off the bench.
 
underKANTER said:
they don't play them cause they want to be able to keep them after their rookie contracts for less money. if they would get more playing time, i think both would get max money offers. but still, people are ready to play big money to big men if they have potential and didn't get many minutes on the floor in the past (see deandre jordan, mcgee, omer asik and so on).

the jazz want to keep them for 8-9 mio/year instead of 15 mio/year. that's the only explanation to me. let them on the bench as long as possible so that they don't become great in order to be able to match any contract offer favors and kanter get.

i think millsap and jefferson should leave this or by the end of the season. favors and kanter have to start as soon as possible. neither shortysap or fatboy al are ready to come off the bench.
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The problem with this thinking is that the jazz dont get to decide if they keep favors and kanter after thier rookie deals expire..... The decision lies with kanter and favors themselves, and the fact that they are not being played very much probably doesn't help to make them want to stay
 
Harden > Sefolosha
Mayo > Jaric and Ross
Horford > Pachulia
Morrison -=- Carroll
Williams > Milt/Keith
Gordon > Piatkowski
Anthony > White
Dunleavy < Jamison
Gasol > Wright
Miles -=- Maggs

Favors >? Millsap
Kanter >? Jefferson
 
imagine kanter or favors starting for the heat and getting big minutes: they would be beasts! and getting paid big time! since jazz only know how to waste young talents, i hope both will leave the jazz and become multiple time all-stars. maybe the jazz will understand then what a big mistake it once was to damn them to the bench in order to be able to play fatboy al and shortysap.
 
LunaticWolf said:
Harden > Sefolosha
Mayo > Jaric and Ross
Horford > Pachulia
Morrison < Carroll
Williams > Milt/Keith
Gordon > Piatkowski
Anthony > White
Dunleavy < Jamison
Gasol > Wright
Miles -=- Maggs

Favors >? Millsap
Kanter >?Jefferson
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Those teams might not have ever known if harden>sefolosha and so on if harden never got to play.
If favors and kanter were getting the minutes that those other number 3 picks were getting then i think we would safely be able to say that favors is greater than millsap and kanter is greater than jeffy.
In fact if you look at kanter, favors, millsap, and jeffys numbers per 36 i think we would find that the young guys are already better.
 
If the jazz drafted harden and already had sefolosha on thier roster, then thier thinking probably would have been..... sefolosha is pretty good and has experience and harden is young and inexperienced so we will go with sefolosha and give harden 18 minutes per game for his first 3 years.
 
fishonjazz said:
If the jazz drafted harden and already had sefolosha on thier roster, then thier thinking probably would have been..... sefolosha is pretty good and has experience and harden is young and inexperienced so we will go with sefolosha and give harden 18 minutes per game for his first 3 years.
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Like they did with Brewer, right?

Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.
 
LunaticWolf said:
Like they did with Brewer, right?

Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.
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if corbin was the coach of brewer he probably would not have played as much as he did.
 
LunaticWolf said:
Like they did with Brewer, right?

Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.
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you described sefolosha alot like i would describe raja bell last year except way worse and raja was our starter until he was injured while our young talented lotto pick got dnp's
 
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