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Houston in talks with Kyrylo Fesenko.

BabyPeterzz said:
True, but what's the difference between playing Fes and taking a flier on a DL scrub? From what we've seen, even this summer, not much.
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The difference between Fez and a DL scrub, TinyPeter, is that Fesenko has experience neutralizing the starting center for the Los Angeles Lakers in the playoffs, as a well as a few other NBA centers for a few minutes at a time. Not dominating, not shutting down; just neutralizing--but it's better than what the other Jazz options could do.

Another difference is that Fes is legitimately 7 feet-plus--unlike NBDL season BP48 leader Greg Stiemsma or runner-up Kurt Looby or Rod Benson or most of the other D-league players who haven't been sent down from NBA teams.

Thirdly, Fes has OK agility for his size. Not great; but OK. When he gets beaten it seems to be on the basis of lack of experience, not lack of agility, most of the time.


BabyPeterzz said:
I'm sick and tired of watching someone blessed with his physical attributes piss it all away. It's disgusting and pathetic.
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Yes, and it's pathetic that Sloan didn't try harder to get him minutes, even when the outcome of game wasn't in question or when Okur or Millsap wasn't getting it done. Fes would have been more effective than a neutralizer if he had received significantly more experience. In three years, Fesenko has had about as much PT as Ostertag had in his first season. You're not gonna develop--especially as a big man-- if you average a mere 3 or 4 minutes per available game.

This is an opportunity to tie up Fesenko for two or three years. At 2 or 3 million per, it's a reasonable price for a second-string or even third-string center.
 
I wonder why he sucked playing over seas then.They must have had a bad coach as well. What has he done to get anytime for jerry to give him time on the floor to begin with. I would rather have someone that is going to make a difference on the team but there is no one else out there. Going to be a battle of trashy players fighting for minutes. Most players in the nba only last 3-5 years. I think with Big AL on the team we need our big guys that can run the floor well. I hope jefferson can and with the attitude he is bringing i feel he has been working hard on his game. He looks in great shape for the season and wants to play. I want to know what fes has been working on in his. Because rather then minutes he needs to Work on his game more then anything. For someone that has been playing enough basketball in his life he should know how to play the game. Real winners work on their game to force themselves to get minutes. Jerry doesn't need to baby these guys. They are old enough to know what they need to be doing out there and what they should work on . He tells that to them after every year on what to work on. I want to see fes get a post up game more then anything Because that is how he is built and that is where he needs to take advantage of more then anything.
The biggest thing i worry about on this team this year is speed going up and down the floor. Going to be fun to watch memo playing the pf and seeing how many more smaller players he can post up against now. Love how jefferson said we are going to win the lakers this year ;).
 
S2, you give Fes too much credit, but most people don't give Fes enough. Last season, when the Jazz needed him, he seemed to step up almost every time. Sure, he didn't produce against easily the best front-court in the NBA, but most of the time he got burn, he made a significant difference.

Considering that and how hard it is to find young, halfway competent Cs with awesome physical tools, $2 million or so a year seems like a good investment.

Or get Gortat.
 
NUMBERICA said:
S2, you give Fes too much credit, but most people don't give Fes enough. Last season, when the Jazz needed him, he seemed to step up almost every time. Sure, he didn't produce against easily the best front-court in the NBA, but most of the time he got burn, he made a significant difference.

Considering that and how hard it is to find young, halfway competent Cs with awesome physical tools, $2 million or so a year seems like a good investment.

Or get Gortat.
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Numberica, you give your screen name too much credit.

Gortat is making 2 to 3+ times the amount that I was proposing for Fesenko, yet you continue to seem to be in the latter Fes camp. Oh--and another key obstacle: Gortat is under contract.
https://www.sharapovasthigh.com/2009/07/where-marcin-gortat-making-34-million.html

I'd like to see a Gortat-Fesenko matchup sometime this year to see how they fare.

If somehow Fes doesn't pan out, I see the Jazz turning to someone like Amundson, who isn't a center but at lest is a very poor man's Varejao.
 
Sucked overseas?

shadler said:
I wonder why he sucked playing over seas then.They must have had a bad coach as well. What has he done to get anytime for jerry to give him time on the floor to begin with. I would rather have someone that is going to make a difference on the team but there is no one else out there. Going to be a battle of trashy players fighting for minutes. Most players in the nba only last 3-5 years. I think with Big AL on the team we need our big guys that can run the floor well. I hope jefferson can and with the attitude he is bringing i feel he has been working hard on his game. He looks in great shape for the season and wants to play. I want to know what fes has been working on in his. Because rather then minutes he needs to Work on his game more then anything. For someone that has been playing enough basketball in his life he should know how to play the game. Real winners work on their game to force themselves to get minutes. Jerry doesn't need to baby these guys. They are old enough to know what they need to be doing out there and what they should work on . He tells that to them after every year on what to work on. I want to see fes get a post up game more then anything Because that is how he is built and that is where he needs to take advantage of more then anything.
The biggest thing i worry about on this team this year is speed going up and down the floor. Going to be fun to watch memo playing the pf and seeing how many more smaller players he can post up against now. Love how jefferson said we are going to win the lakers this year ;).
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Sucked overseas? How?
 
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InGameStrategy said:
Numberica, you give your screen name too much credit.

Gortat is making 2 to 3+ times the amount that I was proposing for Fesenko, yet you continue to seem to be in the latter Fes camp. Oh--and another key obstacle: Gortat is under contract.
https://www.sharapovasthigh.com/2009/07/where-marcin-gortat-making-34-million.html

I'd like to see a Gortat-Fesenko matchup sometime this year to see how they fare.

If somehow Fes doesn't pan out, I see the Jazz turning to someone like Amundson, who isn't a center but at lest is a very poor man's Varejao.
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I'm not sure what "the latter Fes camp" is, but I want the Jazz to sign Fesenko. But I'm sorry I might not be clear enough because my opinion is measured.

And I'm fully aware Gortat costs more, I didn't say anything about how much he cost. And I'm aware he's under contract. I'm also aware that Orlando has the premier C in the league right now, and are paying somewhere between $6 million and $12 million a year (after penalties) for a backup that brings nothing Howard doesn't and wants out.

The difference between Gortat and Fes is vast even if it's not clear on the surface. Fes is a goofball that might never be able to figure it out and whose official measurements are not available. Gortat has been a rotation player on a true contender that PRODUCES when he's on the court in addition to all of the little things Fesenko does for court space (Fesenko isn't much for production). While anyone (except maybe you) would agree with that assessment, it's known exactly what Gortat's physical profile, and it's very impressive. And Gortat is a professional.

No, Gortat isn't Howard. He's not a scorer. He's not a star. But he's a 7-footer that defends, rebounds, and isn't an idiot. There's no one on the Jazz or in the mix currently that you can say that about.

But that's all kind of beside the point that I don't think the Millers want to pay the price-tag for Gortat even if he was acquirable as a straight-up salary dump. It's just wishful thinking.
 
InGameStrategy said:
The difference between Fez and a DL scrub, TinyPeter, is that Fesenko has experience neutralizing the starting center for the Los Angeles Lakers in the playoffs, as a well as a few other NBA centers for a few minutes at a time. Not dominating, not shutting down; just neutralizing--but it's better than what the other Jazz options could do.

Another difference is that Fes is legitimately 7 feet-plus--unlike NBDL season BP48 leader Greg Stiemsma or runner-up Kurt Looby or Rod Benson or most of the other D-league players who haven't been sent down from NBA teams.

Thirdly, Fes has OK agility for his size. Not great; but OK. When he gets beaten it seems to be on the basis of lack of experience, not lack of agility, most of the time.


Yes, and it's pathetic that Sloan didn't try harder to get him minutes, even when the outcome of game wasn't in question or when Okur or Millsap wasn't getting it done. Fes would have been more effective than a neutralizer if he had received significantly more experience. In three years, Fesenko has had about as much PT as Ostertag had in his first season. You're not gonna develop--especially as a big man-- if you average a mere 3 or 4 minutes per available game.

This is an opportunity to tie up Fesenko for two or three years. At 2 or 3 million per, it's a reasonable price for a second-string or even third-string center.
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I wouldn't say he neutralized LA's bigmen at all. He had a really tough time staying on the court during that series. Although, as I conveniently forgot, he had a good series against Denver and definitely neutralized Neenee. I'll give him that, he really stepped up in that series and played pretty well. He is gifted physically and is agile for a guy his size, but he refuses to put in the necessary time and effort to become effective on the court consistently.

I'm well aware of your beef with Sloan and the playing time he's given Fes. But as I've said before, it's a two way street. Yes, Sloan could give Fes more time on the court to develop and improve, but it's going to take more than just court time, he needs to put forth the effort in practice and show the coaching staff he's worth those minutes. I think it's obvious he hasn't done so, otherwise we would see him getting more spot time on the floor.

I guess I have to agree with your and Numbs, he's worth the 2-3 mil for the next few years considering the amount of time we've invested in him already. But after his performance this summer it's obvious he's hasn't learned anything from his time in the playoffs last season.

Here's to hoping he comes around. Until then, if he continues to suck I'm going to continue to despise his underachieving *** more and more.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I'm not sure what "the latter Fes camp" is, but I want the Jazz to sign Fesenko. But I'm sorry I might not be clear enough because my opinion is measured.

And I'm fully aware Gortat costs more, I didn't say anything about how much he cost. And I'm aware he's under contract. I'm also aware that Orlando has the premier C in the league right now, and are paying somewhere between $6 million and $12 million a year (after penalties) for a backup that brings nothing Howard doesn't and wants out.

The difference between Gortat and Fes is vast even if it's not clear on the surface. Fes is a goofball that might never be able to figure it out and whose official measurements are not available. Gortat has been a rotation player on a true contender that PRODUCES when he's on the court in addition to all of the little things Fesenko does for court space (Fesenko isn't much for production). While anyone (except maybe you) would agree with that assessment, it's known exactly what Gortat's physical profile, and it's very impressive. And Gortat is a professional.

No, Gortat isn't Howard. He's not a scorer. He's not a star. But he's a 7-footer that defends, rebounds, and isn't an idiot. There's no one on the Jazz or in the mix currently that you can say that about.

But that's all kind of beside the point that I don't think the Millers want to pay the price-tag for Gortat even if he was acquirable as a straight-up salary dump. It's just wishful thinking.
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Sorry; I feared that “the latter Fes camp” wouldn’t be clear. The “camp” that I was referring to your comment that Fes did make a “significant difference” most of the time that he was on the court. Maybe you're not too far from the mark after all ;).

I guess by going out for Gortat, you mean trade for him (unless he was somehow waived). I don’t see a Jazz combination of players where it would make sense to trade for Gortat. My point is that suggesting Gortat (or any other signed player without a trade in mind) is wishful thinking at best. Gortat is far more expensive than a third-string center would command (or maybe even a second-stringer, especially in luxury tax territory).

While I’ve been intrigued by Gortat in the past also, is he really all that, anyway?
https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2010/6/3/1497301/evaluating-marcin-gortat
Assuming salary as a linear metric (not really accurate, but the point still holds), I don’t think that Gortat is 2 or 3 times better than Fesenko—much less the QO that Utah is probably offering the latter camp (Fes’s).

He’s had some nice games (e.g., vs. the depleted Spurs), but he’s not a big scorer.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/555948/marcin-gortat

And evidently he got dazzled by Zaza overseas (although he made it up with a good game vs. the pesky Portugueses << rolleyes >>).
https://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/s...-redeemed-from-zaza-pachulia-destruction.html

The NBA stats show Gortat as a more prolific rebounder and a mildly better shotblocker than Fesenko and Koufos (!), but he scored at a slightly lower rate than both of them during last season and the season before. (And I won’t bring up his so-so +/-, either.) To me, that doesn’t command several million more per year—or, salary aside, even a coveting that is much more than what Fes brings. So I don't know what you're talking about with what Gortat "PRODUCES."

If your criteria includes “idiot” as you stated above, then maybe Karl Malone should’ve played less, too. And Boozer and "Torrey Ellis," depending on your definition of idiocy.
https://www.themightymjd.com/2005/12/15/deron-williams-robert-whaley-give-fake-names-to-cops/

My criteria focus on what they do on the court, and it presumes that they have a reasonably minimal opportunity to do something on the court. Fes isn't running for Congress or trying to get a medical license; barring criminal activity, what players do off the court should not be direct factors on whether they play (although it likely will indirectly affect their play, which is why the on-court performance is the best criteria, because off-court performance will be reflected).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Matt Harpring Trade Exception.
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Luxury Tax


For one million hard to see anyone better out there. Hopefully his summer playing time with the national team will benefit him. Still like to see him signed for at least 2 years. Hate to see him have a breakout year and be worth around 5 million or so (you see how big men get overpaid). Okur is a big question mark and Tomic as well.
 
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