GVC
Well-Known Member
Do you think Marvin generally has a bigger impact on the game than Demarre? Do you think he's a better fit with the starters?
Only in Jazzland does Marvin see time over Carroll
- Thread starter D Will Texas
- Start date
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Honestly I really don't think Carroll will resign with us, and I wouldn't blame him. He's earned minutes, and should be treated with more respect then given 2 minutes of Garbage time. If I were Carroll I'd be pissed and left wondering what I have to do to get consistent minutes.
Ty needs to be smart enough to fit him in somewhere at the expense of both Marvin and Watson but don't just sit him!
Ty needs to be smart enough to fit him in somewhere at the expense of both Marvin and Watson but don't just sit him!
candrew
Well-Known Member
All things being equal you're probably right - but alot can change in the next couple of days.
I am the 3 Star Lieutenant General of the Start DeMarre Army, only beneath 4 Star General of the Army Dalamon.
My comment was about Marvin only. I don't see any reason to hate on him because casual fans don't know what to look for and can't point out his contributions. I also realize the tough position Corbin is in right now with Burks finally playing within the offense and Hayward back. Minutes are in flux; I can't wait until the deadline passes.
GVC
Well-Known Member
It really is hard placing a value on standing in the corner, looking bored.
Marvin starts over Demarre for the simple reason is that Carroll is always gambling for steals and offensive rebounds. Against backup players or unfocused starters Carroll usually gets the gambles to work. If he was a starter, other teams would focus on exploiting Demarre.
Marvin isn't flashy and his offensive is limited. But he has great size and he makes few mistakes on D. Marvin is a better fit with a Millsap/Jefferson front line than Carroll. Carroll works out better when Favors is there to cover up his mistakes.
And finally Demarre is shooting 48% from the field this season. For his career he is a 43% shooter. I expect his hot shooting isn't sustainable.
By comparison Marvin Williams is a career 45% shooter. He is shooting 42% this year. I expect his shooting to improve as the season goes on.
Marvin isn't flashy and his offensive is limited. But he has great size and he makes few mistakes on D. Marvin is a better fit with a Millsap/Jefferson front line than Carroll. Carroll works out better when Favors is there to cover up his mistakes.
And finally Demarre is shooting 48% from the field this season. For his career he is a 43% shooter. I expect his hot shooting isn't sustainable.
By comparison Marvin Williams is a career 45% shooter. He is shooting 42% this year. I expect his shooting to improve as the season goes on.
DeMarre took a gamble on a near steal last night that resulted in an easy layup for the GST after he broke defense and failed to secure the ball. That's the downside to his style of play. Also, unlike Marvin, he's prone to getting blown by in man coverage.
Well he looked OK against the Jazz, unfortunately.
candrew
Well-Known Member
He does have great size for a 3; but I'd wish he'd figure out how to us it on offense already. He looks very uncomfotable driving unless he has a clear path to therim. And he has no clue what he's doing when he's trying to play with his back to the basket in the post.
If it wasn't for all these "unseen by most" contributions to the 4th worst starting 5 in the NBA in terms of point differential, I'm not sure why he'd be starting.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Demarre isn't a perfect player, obviously, but he's played better than Marvin this season despite having less natural talent. Marvin will actually flash to the middle or cut once every handful of games or so, and if he doesn't get the ball, it seems as though he gets frustrated and retreats back to his corner to sulk. There is no good reason why he shouldn't work harder, looking for seams and crashing the boards, on offense.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
There is no basketball reason why Marvin plays over Carroll. It's not even defensible.
My personal guess is they don't want to completely obliterate Marvin as a possible trade asset. And taking him out of the rotation entirely, which is the right basketball move, would basically guarantee he's a dead contract.
My personal guess is they don't want to completely obliterate Marvin as a possible trade asset. And taking him out of the rotation entirely, which is the right basketball move, would basically guarantee he's a dead contract.
Well the pro-Marvin crowd will talk up his defense. It's just not an elite special skill. It's ok, it's solid, but he's not someone that's going to shut down a star in the playoffs. Watch how Durrant just destroyed him in the 3rd QT of the last OKC/Utah game. Marvin can "shut down" rookies, and has beens, whoopie! He's simply a solid defender, but it's not a special skill that earns him playing time.
The sad part is he is our best option against big wings usually. Burks and Hayward get overpowered. Carroll tries really hard but he can be posted or setup for back cuts.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Maybe. But you know what - Burks, Carroll and Hayward can all guard 3 different positions. Most team's are lucky to have one guy who can guard 3 positions.
I'd take my chances with any of those 3 over of Marvin "The Invisible Assassin" Williams.
Carroll get's burned on defense sometimes. I see it too. I'm looking at the overall picture.
Marvin is a solid defender, pretty ho hum on offense. He's not terrible, he's just terrible for the position he's been given (free pass, starter).
We need to play the best players. Carroll, Burks, and Hayward give us more than Marvin imo.
JayCamjazzfan
Member
We pay Marvin too much to not let his see the floor. And his small amount of trade value he has would cease to exist.