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OFFICIAL: Trade Deadline Thread

mhindy said:
For all my bitching today, I actually think we're in okay position as long as we can avoid some landmines in free agency (Al on a big deal, yuck). A guy like Carroll could be absolutely huge going forward because he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. We're one great (possibly good) PG and some development from Favors away from being a very solid team.
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With the number of FAs the Jazz will have, completely avoiding those landmines could be tough.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
No I don't think they'll let them walk if possible. But I don't think he'll let them shaft us neither. Case in point - KOC let Mathews walk - that was a surprise wasn't it?
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No. It wasn't a surprise. Not at all.

I hope it's just the memory part of your brain that is riddled with holes but I already know I'm wrong. Let me know if you need a refresher on what happened that summer.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
GM in no way develop talent. They just draft them, sign them, trade them. Coaches and teammates develop.
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Bro.. I don't mean that KOC is physically there everyday making sure that players are improving. That's the coaches job. But you can't deny that his role is to build an environment for that development to happen.

Like the hiring of Brand Jones as the assistance coach/player development. Do you think that KOC had no say in that at all? Did Corbin just hire him out of his own volition one day and the next day while having coffee with KOC just casually mentioned "OH Kevin, by the way, last night I decided to hire Brad to help with Kanter's footwork - and he'll get $100K a year plus benefits".

C'mon Cy.

When Mike Dunlap was hired for the Bobcats - he was hired because he is skilled in teaching & developing young players. Whose decision was it to go in that direction in the first place?

Of course Corbin is responsible for the day to day stuff, but to say that KOC had nothing to do with it what-so-ever is just untrue. Corbin reports players' developmental progress to whom exactly?
 
...So the Spurs beat the Clips in LA by 26 tonight. Eric Bledsoe played 23 minutes and finished 2-8 for 5 pts with 4 rebs and 3 assists. Butler had 11 pts.
 
green said:
I don't buy that the Miller's will let the Jazz fall out of the playoff race (see the last two years).

Either Al will be back at a max level contract, or Paul will be back grossly overpaid.
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Unfortunately I think that will always be the case with this team: Balancing between the commercial reality of the small market VS trying to win a Championship against all odds. The risk is great - you only have to look at Seattle and Sacramento to see what happens when you neglect the commercial side of things.

Come with me if you will, and let's look at the bigger picture here. I think what KOC/Lindsey is trying to replicate is the Spurs model. Why the Spurs model? Because Lindsey is trained in that model and being a small market team as well, it's a no brainer to apply it to the Jazz. They have a few key guys who are really good (Duncan, Ginobili and Parker), then they "fill in the gaps" each year by finding hidden talents and players that nobody wants, but fit their system perfectly. So let's say that's where KOC/Lindsey wants us to be.

Now let's look at our team. Who do we have that could potentially be the Jazz version of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker? Well we have Favors who is a keeper. We have Hayward who's also a keeper. We have Burks & Kanter who are potentially keepers.

But we're not there yet. But I don't think we're too far off neither. May be in 2-3 years we'll have a young Duncan in Favors. And in 2-3 years we'll have a young Ginobili in Hayward. But that's 2-3 years away.

So those are "where we want to be" and "where we are now".

The decision facing KOC/Lindsey is therefore - how to best get from "where we are now" to "where we want to be"? Do we:

1) Pay either Big Al or Millsap a big 4-5 year contract & go the playoffs each and every year? (playoffs every year - commercially viable)
2) Hand the keys to Favors & Hayward straight away and see what they can do by themselves? (may miss playoffs - commercially suicide)

Or do we:

3) Let Al & Sap walk. Pry a decent starting Big somewhere on the cheap to gap fill while Favors & Hayward are trying to improve & get to the next level? May be sign Splitter to a 3 year contract - start him with Favors? Kanter off the bench? Or Favors & Kanter start with Carl Landry off the bench? (should just make playoffs - commercially viable if done right)

My personal view would be Option 3. Sign someone like Splitter to a 3 year deal, may be $6-7m per. He can start with Favors, Kanter comes off the bench. There's no reason Kanter can't learn & thrive as our 3rd option. Marv. can fill in as our 4th big if we're really desperate. We also have Evans. That's plenty. For the rest, we'll have a mix of draft picks and 1-year contract guys like Foye, Tinsley, Watson, DeMarre. Next season we might not be contenders, but I could see us just making the playoffs (if Favors & Hayward's growths this year are any indications). And the season after next - we might make a deeper push in the playoffs.

Which route KOC/Lindsey take? Nobody knows until this Summer. It sure would be exciting to find out though.
 
Catchall said:
...So the Spurs beat the Clips in LA by 26 tonight. Eric Bledsoe played 23 minutes and finished 2-8 for 5 pts with 4 rebs and 3 assists. Butler had 11 pts.
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when bledsoe plays 26+minutes the 39-18 clippers are 7-8

when burks plays 25+ minutes the 31-24 jazz are 7-3

coincidence or outliers? u be the judge :cool:
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Burks didn't play all of his 25+ min. at PG though.. so your insinuation that Burks => Bledsoe as a PG is not quite right.
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im just bringing up a stat that has to do with how their teams perform when they get considerable minutes Vs. how their teams normally fair.(bledsoe isnt strictly a PG either)

out of those 10 cited games for burks 2 were ishy, the rest were good.
bledsoe has a much higher rate of dropping duds in those high minute appearances and when bledsoe is having a bad game, he shoots more.
burks 2 ishy games i cited were 25 + 29mins with only 6fga
 
now that everyone's not as gung-ho about bledsoe. id really like to question the quality of his shooting %'s

hes a 42% 3pt shooter right?!?

if hes that efficient why did he go 2/10 in january in 280minutes of pt. or 6/30 all of last year or 32/116 in his rookie season. i asked the question does anyone believe hes a 35% 3pt shooter during the day before the deadline, got no answer. now ill ask it this way, does anyone think he will be over 30% 3's the next few years?

EDIT: bledsoe is 2 years older, when burks finishes his rookie contract he will be considerably better than where bledsoe is at now. i just said the emergence of burks has rendered much of bledsoes skillsets redundant.
 
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Re: signing of Millsap or Jefferson

I just re-listened to Lindsey's interview on the show tonight and this is a summary of what he said (via JazzFanatical)

We hope to retain, you know, many of our guys. That will be dependent upon how we finish the season, how they follow Ty[rone Corbin]‘s leadership, how they come together, how hard they play…Then you move to, you know, what can you retain and surround about, around the players you have under contract going into next year.

And we have to be, you know, we have to think value-oriented. ‘Cause what we don’t want to happen going forward is, as much as we pride ourself on consistency with winning records and playoff appearances and character of the group, we can’t fool ourselves into making a 46-win team concrete, where all of a sudden you’re tapped out and you have no ability to change to get better. And then, you know, you’re on the mediocrity treadmill.

The thing that I would say is, you know, even though we’re playoff-competitive, which is short of our goal, we have great flexibility. So by definition, you have to be value-oriented and so while we may want to keep everybody if we trend well, at sometimes as you’ve seen with the New England Patriots or Pittsburgh Steelers or San Antonio Spurs, you know, you can’t fit it under a budget that allows you to sustain, or if you’re short in proof.

So you know, it gets back to valuations and price points and can you make a deal and then you move onto the next thing.
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I think this clearly points towards us not necessarily settling for just signing either Big Al or Millsap to a big/long-term contract if they are not "value-oriented" contracts.

If these big/long-term contracts simply guarantee us 46 wins per year - but prevents us from having the flexibility to become a GREAT team, then I don't think he'd do it.

All I'm saying is it's not a lock that either big Al or Millsap will come back (it'll depend on how much they'll be asking IMO).
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
now that everyone's not as gung-ho about bledsoe. id really like to question the quality of his shooting %'s

hes a 42% 3pt shooter right?!?

if hes that efficient why did he go 2/10 in january in 280minutes of pt. or 6/30 all of last year or 32/116 in his rookie season. i asked the question does anyone believe hes a 35% 3pt shooter during the day before the deadline, got no answer. now ill ask it this way, does anyone think he will be over 30% 3's the next few years?

EDIT: bledsoe is 2 years older, when burks finishes his rookie contract he will be considerably better than where bledsoe is at now. i just said the emergence of burks has rendered much of bledsoes skillsets redundant.
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Quick! Some players isn't my favorite so let's tear him down!! Die, die!
 
mhindy said:
For all my bitching today, I actually think we're in okay position as long as we can avoid some landmines in free agency (Al on a big deal, yuck). A guy like Carroll could be absolutely huge going forward because he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. We're one great (possibly good) PG and some development from Favors away from being a very solid team.
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Don't succumb to the medicore ******** this org try's spin on us. Read your last sentence over and over and get your head right. One good pg away.......we failed miserably. Old man hoarder likes his assets.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
now that everyone's not as gung-ho about bledsoe. id really like to question the quality of his shooting %'s

hes a 42% 3pt shooter right?!?

if hes that efficient why did he go 2/10 in january in 280minutes of pt. or 6/30 all of last year or 32/116 in his rookie season. i asked the question does anyone believe hes a 35% 3pt shooter during the day before the deadline, got no answer. now ill ask it this way, does anyone think he will be over 30% 3's the next few years?

EDIT: bledsoe is 2 years older, when burks finishes his rookie contract he will be considerably better than where bledsoe is at now. i just said the emergence of burks has rendered much of bledsoes skillsets redundant.
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Even good shooters go through bad streaks.

I have watched him shoot. He passes the eye ball test. He is a pretty good shooter now, and he is young.
 
Stoked said:
Quick! Some players isn't my favorite so let's tear him down!! Die, die!
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No **** here they come. Bledsoe was a perfect fit so the dumbasses coming out and pretending we are ok not making a change and belittling him need to shut the **** up. The trade as rumored was a no brainier. Maybe they pulled out, who knows? But to pretend Bledsoe is no good is just sad.
 
Bledsoe's good, as a change of pace bench spark. Dude will never be a top-15 starting pg in the NBA. Quote me on that. I And search my posts I've been saying this from day 1, this isn't some post no trade spin. We have a better shot in the draft, someone younger and who we can hand pick.
 
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