Favors the odd man out

[gregbroncs]

Kanter and Favors both have the same advantages and disadvantages.
Yet, Enes is years ahead of Favors at his game. Maybe not so much defensively simply because of Favors athleticsm,, but certainly offensively.

Kanter has improved soo much from who he was last season, but how about Favors?

If you have not seen improvement in Favors' offensive game then your not looking or don't remember. I get that he's not as good as Kanter on offense. But he's better than he was and not much worse than millsap or Jefferson. Kanter is our best offensive big right now, IMO. Favors is by a long way our best defensive big. Why do they need to be great at both ends? Kanter and Favors have all the makings of a great PF/C combo going forward because their skills are different.
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There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[franklin]

In attempting to see through your several layers of obfuscation, I'm pretty sure this translates to: "I agree with most of this."

Favors is Bynum and Gasol lol haha brah!

To cite DeAndre Jordan and Serge Ibaka as examples as to why the Jazz should give up on Favors illustrates how silly the argument really is.

Uh, link?

Are you trying to invent something out of nothing to stir up board drama or what? Noone ever said to give up on him.

 

[franklin]

Teams who trade players like Favors end up like the Clippers a few years back...

Clippers just gave DeAndre Jordan $10-11.5 million per year, and he's maybe the fourth best player on the team. Maybe.

A) Jazz don't have the luxury of a top five player in CP3 to combine with three players better than Favors
B) They can't afford to waste that kind of money on a guy who is a 4th best on a championship squad.

If the Jazz can get a good return for Favors then they should jump on it as his net production can be replaced in free agency (JJ Hickson $4million).

 

[JGolds]

I like favors. i think we can have a great combo of young talent for the next few years. it will be a problem juggling salarys though.

 

[mhindy]

Anyway, I had pretty much given up on Favors being an important or good offensive player at the beginning of this season. To cite DeAndre Jordan and Serge Ibaka as examples as to why the Jazz should give up on Favors illustrates how silly the argument really is.

That said, Favors needs to work on his jumpshot and one excruciatingly simply post move (for when he gets a mismatch, otherwise, his size does him few FAVORS). From those two, perhaps he can string together a competent offensive repertoire. And hey, maybe if the Jazz get some good guard play, he may improve some as well.

I think we need players who can run PnR with him better, and I think we need to stop trying to make him primarily a post player. He's just not good at that and it leads to his horrible efficiency because of the combination of turnovers and just poor shots.

I think an Ibaka or even Chandler type defensive player is very possible. What's really frustrating is that he rarely gets consistent minutes to work out his issues so we can see what we really have. Makes it hard to extend him.

 

[JGolds]

I think we need players who can run PnR with him better, and I think we need to stop trying to make him primarily a post player. He's just not good at that and it leads to his horrible efficiency because of the combination of turnovers and just poor shots.

I think an Ibaka or even Chandler type defensive player is very possible. What's really frustrating is that he rarely gets consistent minutes to work out his issues so we can see what we really have. Makes it hard to extend him.

a good point guard would turn favors into a fringe allstar the first year they play together. he is big and athletic and knows how to cut to the hoop. we will be the new lob city.

 

[b_line]

Favors can work with big man coaches all he wants but it's not going to give him new capabilities that he's physically incapable of having. He shoots 30% from mid-range and 24% in the paint. Learning footwork isn't going to help him overcome the athleticism he lacks in maneuvering his body while shooting.

How any fan can watch his clumsy game and know he shoots 24% in the paint, after 3 full seasons, and still think he is capable of becoming anything but an offensive liability when featured is beyond me.

what the hell are you talking about? If Favors only shot 30% from midrange, and 24% in the paint, that would mean that he is shooting like 27% total. Yet he shoots 48%. Do you think he is secretly making like 100% of 3 point shots, and the Jazz just somehow dont know about it? Your logic is backwards, and you are just making yourself look stupid at this point.

If Favors is shooting 48%, and Al shoots barely better than him, is that not indicative that could at least approach a fraction of the prodution from Al, who most Jazz fans deem capable, if not great, on the offensive end?

 

[b_line]

Favors is Bynum and Gasol lol haha brah!



Uh, link?

Are you trying to invent something out of nothing to stir up board drama or what? Noone ever said to give up on him.

Your thread is ridiculous. You said in the first post that you wanted the team to trade Favors. How in the world have you gotten so much rep? did you hit your head and all of a sudden change every opinion you had about the team? Favors is a good player. He is no Malone on offense, but he will be serviceable if management gets their head out of their asses and gets a real coach, and a good point guard. Remember how Amare stoudemire scored all of his points early in his career? He was putting back rebounds, one dribble off the pick and roll, and punishing people with inferior ahtleticism. There is no reason Favors can not do that kind of stuff with the right coach. He will probably never score 20 points in a game, but 15 points per game is definitely within reach even if he does not improve his offense at all, and only gets more minutes. What in the world does he need to do to be successful in your eyes? Are you hoping for Dwight howard or Shaq? Hakeem? Karl Malone? Favors is not that. he is Derrick Favors, and he will be a damn good 1 and a half way player for the Jazz.

 

[gregbroncs]

Clippers just gave DeAndre Jordan $10-11.5 million per year, and he's maybe the fourth best player on the team. Maybe.

A) Jazz don't have the luxury of a top five player in CP3 to combine with three players better than Favors
B) They can't afford to waste that kind of money on a guy who is a 4th best on a championship squad.

If the Jazz can get a good return for Favors then they should jump on it as his net production can be replaced in free agency (JJ Hickson $4million).

And how to you propose to replace his defense? Favors is light years ahead of Hickson on that end of the floor. And probably just as good if not better offensively. You seem to only see 1 end of the floor. Right now Favors is our 2nd or 3rd Best player. Hayward, and Kanter being 1 and 2. I would argue Favors is better than Kanter. None of our starters outside of Hayward should be playing more than Favors right now. And he's still 21 years old playing without a PG. A player with Favors' skillset would benefit tremendously by having another guy that can help get him the ball in positions to score.
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By your argument nobody should give Dwight more money than Hickson. Because Hickson is probably just as good offensively as Dwight.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Lets get a PG, get some more talent on the team, speed up the tempo and then see what Favors' offense looks like.

Right now, there are plays where Favors literally tries to cover half the floor for 3 players like Foye, Jefferson and Mo who can't guard their guys. So Favors plays more of a roaming defensive style. Meanwhile our offense has very little movement because our PG can't run a play and no one can get by anyone, so basically we just pass the ball side to side with Favors standing somewhere in the middle.

 

[GVC]

It really amazes me how blind Jazz fans are to Favors' offensive struggles. He's really bad.

 

[b_line]

It really amazes me how blind Jazz fans are to Favors' offensive struggles. He's really bad.

how bad is he? give it to me straight. like Fesenko bad? Burks looks pretty terrible too, if he can't get off the bench over jamaal tinsley and earl watson. And Kanter is playing like he only has one arm.... Good thing Hayward is god.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

It really amazes me how blind Jazz fans are to Favors' offensive struggles. He's really bad.

He's a foul-line pick-and-roll player right now, and the only people on our team who can run that play are Hayward and Burks. Favors still ends up scoring double figures. He's just not a guy we can run an offense through.

 

[fishonjazz]

It really amazes me how blind Jazz fans are to Favors' offensive struggles. He's really bad.

Most of us see his offensive struggles, but we also see him getting to the line alot and scoring almost as many points per 36 as jeffy.

We just dont like to see people like frank over exaggerate his offensive struggles by saying things like he shoots 30% from mid range and 24% from the paint. (yet somehow shoots 48% from the field. WTF?)

 

[b_line]

Most of us see his offensive struggles, but we also see him getting to the line alot and scoring almost as many points per 36 as jeffy.

We just dont like to see people like frank over exaggerate his offensive struggles by saying things like he shoots 30% from mid range and 24% from the paint. (yet somehow shoots 48% from the field. WTF?)

yeah, seriously, how does that math add up?

 

[RCdazy]

Favors' back to the basket game is a nightmare, no doubt about that. However, in a high pick and roll, his length and ability to finish with either hand makes him at least a passable weapon on offense, especially when coupled with the impact he has on the game as a help defender. The best we can hope for in the future defensively is to put Kanter on the better post player and rely on Favors to bother penetrating guards and slow the pick and roll game (which for most teams is a much bigger part of their offense than power post play).

The problem we face is that Corbin has struggled enough to implement a simple post oriented offense. Expecting him to alter the offense to benefit an offensively limited player like favors just for the second unit is just foolish. Another issue is our guard play. Our best pick and roll player is Hayward, and he shoots very poorly off the dribble and has a high/loose handle. He does often make a nice play off the pick and roll, but he isn't even close to the effectiveness a player like CP3 or DWill would offer. We have more than a handful of issues to deal with moving forward, to put it lightly.

 

[franklin]

Your thread is ridiculous. You said in the first post that you wanted the team to trade Favors. How in the world have you gotten so much rep? did you hit your head and all of a sudden change every opinion you had about the team? Favors is a good player. He is no Malone on offense, but he will be serviceable if management gets their head out of their asses and gets a real coach, and a good point guard. Remember how Amare stoudemire scored all of his points early in his career? He was putting back rebounds, one dribble off the pick and roll, and punishing people with inferior ahtleticism. There is no reason Favors can not do that kind of stuff with the right coach. He will probably never score 20 points in a game, but 15 points per game is definitely within reach even if he does not improve his offense at all, and only gets more minutes. What in the world does he need to do to be successful in your eyes? Are you hoping for Dwight howard or Shaq? Hakeem? Karl Malone? Favors is not that. he is Derrick Favors, and he will be a damn good 1 and a half way player for the Jazz.

Blame the point guard, blame management, blame the coach, blame the system... It's always someone else's fault, and Favors just needs better players to make him look good.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Blame the point guard, blame management, blame the coach, blame the system... It's always someone else's fault, and Favors just needs better players to make him look good.

Okay then, let's just do what you suggested and trade him, and whoever we get back let's play those guys even less than Favors is playing now. That's Jazz strategery right there.

 

[bovice]

Would you guys have traded Favors for the 5th pick last year? (i.e., and picking up Lillard in the process)

I want someone to answer this question

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Would you guys have traded Favors for the 5th pick last year? (i.e., and picking up Lillard in the process)

Lillard has played more minutes this season than Favors and Kanter combined. LOL