Gun Control

[fishonjazz]

Yes.

The problem is, as I see it, pro gun-control folks have demonstrated again and again that they are not interested in listening to people with extensive firearms experience. They don't want to hear any of our "common sense" while they are cramming new laws down our throats and screaming to the masses that we're being unreasonable and can't even accept their "common sense" regulations. They never wanted to hear the reality of why their laws don't make any sense and will not solve any problems.

Can you tell me of a law that has been "crammed" down our throats recently?
I have only heard discussions of proposals, none of which have actually been passed.

 

[Gameface]

So what WILL make sense? What should I be listening to?

Well, the first question is what is it you want to accomplish, ultimately? That hasn't really been addressed except in very vague "we must do something about these tragedies." Then the solutions seem completely unrelated to the tragedies.

You stated before that you think there should be an anti-gun propaganda campaign much like the anti-smoking campaign. To me that says you already see guns much like many people see cigarettes. Just a negative part of the world we live in that should be minimized and mitigated to do the least harm. I'm not on board with that. Our goals are different. There is no room for a compromise between your view and mine.

I see the harm done by guns. I acknowledge it. I'm tired of the line "guns don't kill people, people do." Guns are a tool that allows any person regardless of their physical stature to inflict deadly damage on another person or even their self . Guns DO kill people. But that's not all guns do. Guns make the otherwise defenseless able to stand up for themselves. Guns take away the monopoly large men have on power and control. Guns represent the partnership between a free people and their government. Guns make any notion of tyranny against the american people untenable. That's not to say armed citizens can meet the U.S. military in the field and win. It does however make the price of tyranny prohibitively high. I understand that notion is routinely scoffed at, but me and many others aren't scoffing.

So, like I've said, they want effective background checks on all gun transactions? I can handle that. But, all the same, I don't think it will make much difference so I'm not disappointed that it isn't going to happen.

I don't think something needs to happen at all. If that's unreasonable, I'm sorry.

 

[Gameface]

Can you tell me of a law that has been "crammed" down our throats recently?
I have only heard discussions of proposals, none of which have actually been passed.

None, luckily they have been defeated.

 

[fishonjazz]

None, luckily they have been defeated.

So basically this whole humongous thread really amounts to: nothing to see here, move along.

Lots of good paranoia though, hell gun makers and sellers probably hyped up all the gun control paranoia just to sell some more guns..... Genius

 

[Gameface]

So here it is folks, the solution to our gun problems.

#1 Registration of all firearms

#2 Licensing of all firearms owners, requiring periodic training and renewal.

#3 Tight control of ammo sales, including a requirement to account for ammo on hand and all ammo spent. Limits on the amount of ammo allowed per household.

#4 Requirement to have all guns secured. Penalties and loss of firearms rights if guns fall into the wrong hands and/or stolen guns are not promptly reported.

#5 Insane penalties for any misuse of guns, much like our current penalties for drug possession.

#6 Public opinion campaign to create a common notion that guns are bad. Regulations and red tape so thick it makes most shooting sports so difficult to participate in that they become unpopular and die out.

#7 Making images of guns so offensive (so that showing a gun in any positive light is like saying the N word in public) that they no longer appear in TV shows, movies or video games.

I'm of the opinion that those are what is required to "cure" our current gun problem. Anything short and you aren't going to accomplish much. That's what us pro gun folks all realize and why we are steering clear of any compromise that takes us near the slippery slope that leads to what I've said. I give the leaders of the anti-gun movement credit for knowing the exact same thing, which is why I question their motives and why I'm suspicious over obviously ineffective proposals for gun regulation.

 

[Gameface]

So basically this whole humongous thread really amounts to: nothing to see here, move along.

Lots of good paranoia though, hell gun makers and sellers probably hyped up all the gun control paranoia just to sell some more guns..... Genius

When this thread started I expected some new gun regulations to pass. Luckily that hasn't happened.

Yeah, gun sales are brisk. Blame it on the evil gun industry. I have no doubt they're perfectly happy about all this.

 

[Stoked]

Can you tell me of a law that has been "crammed" down our throats recently?
I have only heard discussions of proposals, none of which have actually been passed.

None, luckily they have been defeated.

False.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...owners-now-must-register-assault-weapons?lite

Creates a database (list) of all assault weapons and their owners in New York. Bans them from selling those weapons in state unless it is to a licensed dealer. So no private, in state, transactions. It places limits on clip size and extends to some shotguns and handguns as well.

Edit: Colorado and Conneticut are also considering or have already passed other strict gun laws recently.

 

[fishonjazz]

False.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...owners-now-must-register-assault-weapons?lite

Creates a database (list) of all assault weapons and their owners in New York. Bans them from selling those weapons in state unless it is to a licensed dealer. So no private, in state, transactions. It places limits on clip size and extends to some shotguns and handguns as well.

I stand corrected.
Good work stoked.

 

[Gameface]

False.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...owners-now-must-register-assault-weapons?lite

Creates a database (list) of all assault weapons and their owners in New York. Bans them from selling those weapons in state unless it is to a licensed dealer. So no private, in state, transactions. It places limits on clip size and extends to some shotguns and handguns as well.

Edit: Colorado and Conneticut are also considering or have already passed other strict gun laws recently.

No where do they say what they hope this law will accomplish.

Here's what turns a hunting rifle into a "military-style assault weapon." Cosmetics...

The toughest part of the new statute — banning in-state sales of those guns newly classified as "assault weapons" — immediately took effect Jan. 15. The new classification related to a single military-style feature, such as a pistol grip on semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines. Other listed features include a folding or thumbhole stock, bayonet mount, flash suppressor, or second protruding grip held by the non-trigger hand.

 

[Stoked]

No where do they say what they hope this law will accomplish.

Here's what turns a hunting rifle into a "military-style assault weapon." Cosmetics...

While I did not specify that I personally am aware of what D.C. and the media classify as an "assault weapon". As for not saying what they want it to accomplish...well that is becasue it is about controlling the populace and that is better left unsaid.

 

[Bronco70]

Good answer, if a little paranoid.

Lots of good paranoia though,...

Perhaps some minor paranoia. I think a little is justified, though. There has been a lot of reactionary rhetoric - from both sides of the issue - but little in the way of rational analysis and cooperative discussion. So you are left with no idea what will happen, ultimately. It may not be realistic to say "Obama wanna grab my guns!", but it is equally unrealistic to think that nobody is interested in quashing the 2nd amendment.

...hell gun makers and sellers probably hyped up all the gun control paranoia just to sell some more guns..... Genius

There is actually a kernel of truth here... more than a few have taken advantage of the situation. Gun forums are rife with declarations that the gov't will be taking away guns, or deliberately making ammunition unavailable. It feeds the fire. Gun and ammunition prices (mostly by private sellers) skyrocketed for a period. It seems to have calmed down lately, tho... I think buyers are starting to figure out that it's not now-or-never.

 

[Stoked]

https://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/30/obama-heads-to-colorado-to-highlight-new-gun-laws/

Colorado passed a law limiting the size of a clip to 15 bullets, universal background checks and passed the bill on to gun buyers.

Universal means no private gun sales between private parties. Say Nate505 cannot sell a weapon to his friend without a background check.

 

[Bronco70]

Universal means no private gun sales between private parties.

Good luck enforcing that, CO.

 

[Stoked]

So in short you have as a result of Sandy Hook:

- Members in the Senate (Reid, Feinstien...), house and the President calling for new gun laws such as the assault weapons ban, universal background cheks, and limits to ammo size.

- Various states (New York, Colorado, Conneticut, Maryland, Washington...) have passed or are attempting to pass new laws that range from universal background checks (Colorado), registrations lists of weapons (New York), to finger printing and licensing (Maryland).

It is not paranoia. It is reality that these rights guaranteed to me in the 2nd amendment are being tampered with and infringed upon.

 

[fishonjazz]

So in short you have as a result of Sandy Hook:

- Members in the Senate (Reid, Feinstien...), house and the President calling for new gun laws such as the assault weapons ban, universal background cheks, and limits to ammo size.

- Various states (New York, Colorado, Conneticut, Maryland, Washington...) have passed or are attempting to pass new laws that range from universal background checks (Colorado), registrations lists of weapons (New York), to finger printing and licensing (Maryland).

It is not paranoia. It is reality that these rights guaranteed to me in the 2nd amendment are being tampered with and infringed upon.

Good points except that you dont live in new york, colorado, conneticut, maryland or washington so YOUR 2nd ammendment rights are not being infringed upon...... yet
I get your point though that there IS danger of your rights being infinged upon.
I shall pray for you

 

[babe]

voting is superfluous nowadays. Why the hell do people need to vote??? What do they have to hide??? Why not at least have your votes registered so officials can see what you're voting for, individually???

We should just let the media decide who's gonna have public office. They are the ones who truly know what's best.

jes' sayin'./

guns are irrelevant to most people. Ain'tnobody gonna go out on the street with a gun to tell the cops what's wut.

 

[One Brow]

It is reality that these rights guaranteed to me in the 2nd amendment are being tampered with and infringed upon.

Assuming you have no criminal record and no history of mental instability, in what way does this interfere with your ability to own and use a gun?

I could see an argument that your privacy is being infringed upon, but privacy is not a second amendment right.

 

[Gameface]

Assuming you have no criminal record and no history of mental instability, in what way does this interfere with your ability to own and use a gun?

I could see an argument that your privacy is being infringed upon, but privacy is not a second amendment right.

Correct, it's a 4th Amendment right... But the 4th has already fallen victim to the war on drugs, aka modern day jim crow.

 

[Stoked]

Good points except that you dont live in new york, colorado, conneticut, maryland or washington so YOUR 2nd ammendment rights are not being infringed upon...... yet
I get your point though that there IS danger of your rights being infinged upon.
I shall pray for you

You are correct in that I should reword it from I to something more general. You may see this as a joke but I do not. This amendment is as worth protecting as the 1st amendment is.

 

[Stoked]

Assuming you have no criminal record and no history of mental instability, in what way does this interfere with your ability to own and use a gun?

I could see an argument that your privacy is being infringed upon, but privacy is not a second amendment right.

Aside from my misuse of "my". If I was a new York resident I am not on a list and could not buy a weapon from a private owner. If I lived in Colorado I would not be able to have the clips I already own...

Don't bother with a clip size not being a 2nd amendment issue arguement. That is a non starter between us. You claim it is not and I claim it is.